OT –> I found an old friend yesterday.

Question:

Around 1963, I got hooked on shooting pool. I just loved the game. I started hanging out at the High Cue in Elizabeth NJ on St George Ave. Every day after school, and in the mornings when they opened on week ends. Dutch and Lucky owned the joint. In the mornings, they’d teach me the fine points of the game. Dutch had me shooting Billiards on that big table without any pockets. Yeah, it’s a tough game playing three cushion billiards. One day Dutch tells me I have to stop using the house cues, and get a good stick. So, he starts showing me these real fancy Palmer cue sticks. Boy, I can’t afford one of those, I told him. So, he calls up Palmer, and they talk a bit. Dutch says no problem. I can get a plain jane stick made for me. With that we start figuring out what type of stick would be the best for me to have made. After weeks of playing with a pile of different sticks, we had most of the details down on paper. So Dutch asks me, out of the blue, What color. I never thought of that. I just never thought of that. I though nothing of the plain Jane house sticks as having any thing other than being wood color. Dutch says, pick a color. What’s your favorite color. He laughs and says, green it is, as he goes to the phone. Yes, a "green" plain Jane, I heard him say over the phone before he hung up the phone. Well, about a week later I walk in and Dutch greets me and says I should look at the cue sticks on the wall behind the counter. I look over, and there surrounded by all these fancy pool cues is this lone green stick. Boy was I ever excited. Dutch hands it to me, and says, let’s try it out. I can’t tell you what a difference that stick had compared what I was used to shooting with. The feel changed my whole stroke. The way the cue ball reacted to my stroke, was amazing. I could do things with that stick, I really had to work for with the best house stick I could find. Now, I had to just pay Dutch for the stick. He was going to hold it hostage till I paid him. Well, 150 bucks was big money to a kid still in school back in those days. So, I had to get my game together to pay the ransom. Which I did. Well, my pool shooting career was cut short because of Rock, R&B, and Jazz music. Along the way, I just found myself playing more gigs than shooting pool. The last time I used that Green Plain Jane, was back in 1967 or 68. LOL, after all that time, while cleaning up the attic, my wife says, what’s this thing. Yes, she found it. The last time I put my eyes on it, was back then. So here I sit wanting to find a game and give Plain Jane a workout. To my surprise, New Jersey is not so much populated with pool halls as it was years ago. So JJ Billiards is going to get a visit from me after I finish typing this. Yes, in the ’60s I watched Hopkins shoot nine ball at the old High Cue in Elizabeth NJ. Not to mention Mizerak taking over the table one night with all the side bets going on in the gallery. Calovito was another hot player from NJ too. http://www.barringercues.com/aboutus1.html http://www.palmercollector.com/Palmerhistory.html Any of you guys ever play three cushion billards. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

> Around 1963, I got hooked on shooting pool. I just loved the game. > I started hanging out at the High Cue in Elizabeth NJ on St George Ave. > Every day after school, and in the mornings when they opened on week ends. > Dutch and Lucky owned the joint. > In the mornings, they’d teach me the fine points of the game. Dutch had

me shooting Billiards on > that big table without any pockets. Yeah, it’s a tough game playing three cushion billiards. > One day Dutch tells me I have to stop using the house cues, and get a good

stick. So, he starts > showing me these real fancy Palmer cue sticks. Boy, I can’t afford one of those, I told him. > So, he calls up Palmer, and they talk a bit. Dutch says no problem. I

can get a plain jane stick > made for me. > With that we start figuring out what type of stick would be the best for

me to have made. After > weeks of playing with a pile of different sticks, we had most of the

details down on paper. > So Dutch asks me, out of the blue, What color. > I never thought of that. > I just never thought of that. I though nothing of the plain Jane house

sticks as having any thing > other than being wood color. > Dutch says, pick a color. What’s your favorite color. > He laughs and says, green it is, as he goes to the phone. > Yes, a "green" plain Jane, I heard him say over the phone before he hung up the phone. > Well, about a week later I walk in and Dutch greets me and says I should

look at the cue sticks on > the wall behind the counter. > I look over, and there surrounded by all these fancy pool cues is this lone green stick. > Boy was I ever excited. Dutch hands it to me, and says, let’s try it out. > I can’t tell you what a difference that stick had compared what I was used

to shooting with. The > feel changed my whole stroke. The way the cue ball reacted to my stroke,

was amazing. I could do > things with that stick, I really had to work for with the best house stick I could find. > Now, I had to just pay Dutch for the stick. He was going to hold it

hostage till I paid him. Well, > 150 bucks was big money to a kid still in school back in those days. So,

I had to get my game > together to pay the ransom. Which I did. > Well, my pool shooting career was cut short because of Rock, R&B, and Jazz

music. Along the way, I > just found myself playing more gigs than shooting pool. The last time I

used that Green Plain Jane, > was back in 1967 or 68. > LOL, after all that time, while cleaning up the attic, my wife says, what’s this thing. > Yes, she found it. The last time I put my eyes on it, was back then. > So here I sit wanting to find a game and give Plain Jane a workout. > To my surprise, New Jersey is not so much populated with pool halls as it

was years ago. So JJ > Billiards is going to get a visit from me after I finish typing this. > Yes, in the ’60s I watched Hopkins shoot nine ball at the old High Cue in

Elizabeth NJ. Not to > mention Mizerak taking over the table one night with all the side bets

going on in the gallery. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Calovito was another hot player from NJ too. > http://www.barringercues.com/aboutus1.html > http://www.palmercollector.com/Palmerhistory.html > Any of you guys ever play three cushion billards. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, > Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Hi Rich, Billiards, snooker, 8-ball, 9-ball, 3-ball….Played a bunch… I’ve won several dollars over the years. If I’m playing a tournament type format, I will use my own one-piece cue. If I’m playin’ beer bar (for money) 8/9 ball, I always use a house cue. Lots of intimidation and posturing in that type of gameplay, and I try not to let my opponent (or future opponent lurking and trying to scope easy mark) know anything about me and what I can and can’t do at any given moment on a table. Keeping an opponent *off-balance* encourages judgmental errors and frustration/desperation moves and I got him/her. As a young child, I severely injured one of my eyes. I grew up blind in that eye, and learned to shoot while seeing "mono". My vision difficulties kept me from going to Viet Nam. In the late 80’s, and after several surgeries during the 70’s-80’s, technology caught up with my eye trauma complications. (Ironically, thanks to what was learned in Viet Nam in repairing severe trauma) Ex-Air Force doctors restored vision in my damaged eye. It took the repairing of the detached retina, removal of the vitreous gel (nature’s shock absorber for the eye), a cornea transplant (from the eye of a young man killed in a motorcycle accident….bless him!) and the replacement of my natural lens with a permanent installed plastic lens. After over 30 years, the eye got turned back on, and I could see in "stereo". My doctor encouraged me to keep shooting pool as he saw it as good physical therapy to get this eye to catch up and properly share the load of vision, and allow the brain to re-learn this signal input. It was hard at first, not really trusting what I was actually seeing in regards to not only the pool game, but driving a car, hitting a nail with a hammer,…..everything. In the late 90’s, while working on the road in Kansas, I had a major change of heart in regards to hustling pool. It was a Friday night in the summer, spending the evening playing (for money) in a typical tavern in a small farm town. A slightly drunk guy (local to that bar) was determined to whip me on the table….I clearly out-matched him, and took his entire paycheck for the week….That didn’t really bother me, there was no violence or worry as to how to get out of the bar intact. I felt horrible knowing he cut hay all week, and his wife and kids weren’t going to see squat that week for his efforts. Sure, he was responsible for his poor judgment, but I felt responsible for *knowing* we were not in the same league and I had the upper hand, and it’s my burden to not let a mis-matched game wager cause distress to the innocents involved. The next day, I got the bartender to tell me where he lived. I went to his home, he was at work. (go figure!) I had a very short talk with his wife and gave her the $400 back. She had no idea what I was talking about, he hadn’t told her (yet?). I did get free beer at that bar for the rest of the time I spent in that town. I won’t hustle a sucker game, I will play for a beer and such, with anybody….That’s different. My feeling now is, two competent well matched players ultimately will trade dollars back and forth. I will play for the sake of the game, and see no need to attempt to "make it more interesting" (pick a hustle line) Cheers, robert

Response:

> Any of you guys ever play three cushion billards.

Cool stuff, Rich. I tried it a few times – tough game. We have a pool table at work, but it’s all 7, 8 or 9 ball. (Which is fine with me, since I don’t feel like shelling out for a real cue!)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Around 1963, I got hooked on shooting pool. I just loved the game. > I started hanging out at the High Cue in Elizabeth NJ on St George Ave. > Every day after school, and in the mornings when they opened on week ends. > Dutch and Lucky owned the joint. > In the mornings, they’d teach me the fine points of the game. Dutch had > me shooting Billiards on > that big table without any pockets. Yeah, it’s a tough game playing three > cushion billiards. > One day Dutch tells me I have to stop using the house cues, and get a good > stick. So, he starts > showing me these real fancy Palmer cue sticks. Boy, I can’t afford one of > those, I told him. > So, he calls up Palmer, and they talk a bit. Dutch says no problem. I > can get a plain jane stick > made for me. > With that we start figuring out what type of stick would be the best for > me to have made. After > weeks of playing with a pile of different sticks, we had most of the > details down on paper. > So Dutch asks me, out of the blue, What color. > I never thought of that. > I just never thought of that. I though nothing of the plain Jane house > sticks as having any thing > other than being wood color. > Dutch says, pick a color. What’s your favorite color. > He laughs and says, green it is, as he goes to the phone. > Yes, a "green" plain Jane, I heard him say over the phone before he hung > up the phone. > Well, about a week later I walk in and Dutch greets me and says I should > look at the cue sticks on > the wall behind the counter. > I look over, and there surrounded by all these fancy pool cues is this > lone green stick. > Boy was I ever excited. Dutch hands it to me, and says, let’s try it out. > I can’t tell you what a difference that stick had compared what I was used > to shooting with. The > feel changed my whole stroke. The way the cue ball reacted to my stroke, > was amazing. I could do > things with that stick, I really had to work for with the best house stick > I could find. > Now, I had to just pay Dutch for the stick. He was going to hold it > hostage till I paid him. Well, > 150 bucks was big money to a kid still in school back in those days. So, > I had to get my game > together to pay the ransom. Which I did. > Well, my pool shooting career was cut short because of Rock, R&B, and Jazz > music. Along the way, I > just found myself playing more gigs than shooting pool. The last time I > used that Green Plain Jane, > was back in 1967 or 68. > LOL, after all that time, while cleaning up the attic, my wife says, > what’s this thing. > Yes, she found it. The last time I put my eyes on it, was back then. > So here I sit wanting to find a game and give Plain Jane a workout. > To my surprise, New Jersey is not so much populated with pool halls as it > was years ago. So JJ > Billiards is going to get a visit from me after I finish typing this. > Yes, in the ’60s I watched Hopkins shoot nine ball at the old High Cue in > Elizabeth NJ. Not to > mention Mizerak taking over the table one night with all the side bets > going on in the gallery. > Calovito was another hot player from NJ too. > http://www.barringercues.com/aboutus1.html > http://www.palmercollector.com/Palmerhistory.html > Any of you guys ever play three cushion billards. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, > Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers > Hi Rich, > Billiards, snooker, 8-ball, 9-ball, 3-ball….Played a bunch… I’ve won > several dollars over the years. If I’m playing a tournament type format, I > will use my own one-piece cue. If I’m playin’ beer bar (for money) 8/9 ball, > I always use a house cue. Lots of intimidation and posturing in that type of > gameplay, and I try not to let my opponent (or future opponent lurking and > trying to scope easy mark) know anything about me and what I can and can’t > do at any given moment on a table. Keeping an opponent *off-balance* > encourages judgmental errors and frustration/desperation moves and I got > him/her. > As a young child, I severely injured one of my eyes. I grew up blind in that > eye, and learned to shoot while seeing "mono". My vision difficulties kept > me from going to Viet Nam. In the late 80’s, and after several surgeries > during the 70’s-80’s, technology caught up with my eye trauma complications. > (Ironically, thanks to what was learned in Viet Nam in repairing severe > trauma) Ex-Air Force doctors restored vision in my damaged eye. > It took the repairing of the detached retina, removal of the vitreous gel > (nature’s shock absorber for the eye), a cornea transplant (from the eye of > a young man killed in a motorcycle accident….bless him!) and the > replacement of my natural lens with a permanent installed plastic lens. > After over 30 years, the eye got turned back on, and I could see in > "stereo". > My doctor encouraged me to keep shooting pool as he saw it as good physical > therapy to get this eye to catch up and properly share the load of vision, > and allow the brain to re-learn this signal input. It was hard at first, not > really trusting what I was actually seeing in regards to not only the pool > game, but driving a car, hitting a nail with a hammer,…..everything. > In the late 90’s, while working on the road in Kansas, I had a major change > of heart in regards to hustling pool. It was a Friday night in the summer, > spending the evening playing (for money) in a typical tavern in a small farm > town. A slightly drunk guy (local to that bar) was determined to whip me on > the table….I clearly out-matched him, and took his entire paycheck for the > week….That didn’t really bother me, there was no violence or worry as to > how to get out of the bar intact. I felt horrible knowing he cut hay all > week, and his wife and kids weren’t going to see squat that week for his > efforts. Sure, he was responsible for his poor judgment, but I felt > responsible for *knowing* we were not in the same league and I had the upper > hand, and it’s my burden to not let a mis-matched game wager cause distress > to the innocents involved. > The next day, I got the bartender to tell me where he lived. I went to his > home, he was at work. (go figure!) I had a very short talk with his wife and > gave her the $400 back. She had no idea what I was talking about, he hadn’t > told her (yet?). I did get free beer at that bar for the rest of the time I > spent in that town. > I won’t hustle a sucker game, I will play for a beer and such, with > anybody….That’s different. My feeling now is, two competent well matched > players ultimately will trade dollars back and forth. I will play for the > sake of the game, and see no need to attempt to "make it more interesting" > (pick a hustle line) > Cheers, > robert

Very cool of you. Yeah, I’ve got a few stories from those days. Like the time me and Coop with to NYC to hustle a few. Coop had a little too much to drink, and lost his cool. LOL, he freaking brakes, and runs the table twice in a row. So I grab the keys to slip out and get the car running. I pull up, open the passenger door, hit the horn, and pray. Damn, that was close. Never went out for a game with Coop again after that. I had to lay low in NY after that. From then on I played solo. Went looking for a better class of game too. I really love the challenge of making the shot. What ever it happens to be. From the three cushion playing, I would make shots others would never think of making. It was hard to play safe on me. Once, in a game of 8 ball, this fellow plays a good safe on me hiding the cue ball behind his two remaining balls so I can’t see the 8. I pull a four cushion shot, and dropped the 8. LOL, I surprised myself with that shot. After the band stuff took off, many times I just went down to the High Cue just to hang out with the guys I knew. Everyone asked why I wasn’t around much. When I told them I was a musician, they all were surprised. After a while, I just lost touch with them, and the game. From time to time, if there was a pool table in the club, I’d shoot a friendly game or two just for the fun of it. Now that I’ve come back to playing in the clubs, especially up at Orphan Annie’s, I’d get a game or two in between sets. After I posted, I had to check out JJ’s really fast on the way to meet friend later on at Orphan Annie’s. While I waited, I pulled out old Plain Jane, to try her out again. I threw in the coins and set up a game of Solitaire. Yes, there is a game called Solitaire that is a practice game you either shoot for practice, or it can be a hustler’s game too. It’s a game Lucky showed me. BTW, it’s a very soft touch game. If you don’t have good control over the cue ball, the game gets hard real fast. Boy, on the first stroke with Plain Jane, it was an instant flashback. Damn, if only I had gone for a career in the game, I’d maybe have more money in the bank today. Oh well. Hopkins did all right for himself at 9 ball. Hey, you see him on cable TV when they run the pool shooting matches. From Google, it looks like Mizerak has his pool tables and cue stick going for him. Here’s a real shocker for ya. I called up JJ’s, and asked if they had a regulation billiards table to shoot three cushion. He said no one plays that anymore. He thinks he heard there may be one left in NYC some where. Damn, most … read more »

Response:

> > Any of you guys ever play three cushion billards. > Cool stuff, Rich. > I tried it a few times – tough game. > We have a pool table at work, but it’s > all 7, 8 or 9 ball. (Which is fine > with me, since I don’t feel like shelling > out for a real cue!)

I liked to play 3 cushion, straight, and 8 ball. 6 and 9 ball was too short of a game for me. By the time you get started, it’s over. 9 ball is ready made for some real interesting TV. 3 cushion would bore you to death to watch on the TV. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Around 1963, I got hooked on shooting pool. I just loved the game. > I started hanging out at the High Cue in Elizabeth NJ on St George Ave. > Every day after school, and in the mornings when they opened on week ends. > Dutch and Lucky owned the joint. > In the mornings, they’d teach me the fine points of the game. Dutch had >me shooting Billiards on > that big table without any pockets. Yeah, it’s a tough game playing three >cushion billiards. > One day Dutch tells me I have to stop using the house cues, and get a good >stick. So, he starts > showing me these real fancy Palmer cue sticks. Boy, I can’t afford one of >those, I told him. > So, he calls up Palmer, and they talk a bit. Dutch says no problem. I >can get a plain jane stick > made for me. > With that we start figuring out what type of stick would be the best for >me to have made. After > weeks of playing with a pile of different sticks, we had most of the >details down on paper. > So Dutch asks me, out of the blue, What color. > I never thought of that. > I just never thought of that. I though nothing of the plain Jane house >sticks as having any thing > other than being wood color. > Dutch says, pick a color. What’s your favorite color. > He laughs and says, green it is, as he goes to the phone. > Yes, a "green" plain Jane, I heard him say over the phone before he hung >up the phone. > Well, about a week later I walk in and Dutch greets me and says I should >look at the cue sticks on > the wall behind the counter. > I look over, and there surrounded by all these fancy pool cues is this >lone green stick. > Boy was I ever excited. Dutch hands it to me, and says, let’s try it out. > I can’t tell you what a difference that stick had compared what I was used >to shooting with. The > feel changed my whole stroke. The way the cue ball reacted to my stroke, >was amazing. I could do > things with that stick, I really had to work for with the best house stick >I could find. > Now, I had to just pay Dutch for the stick. He was going to hold it >hostage till I paid him. Well, > 150 bucks was big money to a kid still in school back in those days. So, >I had to get my game > together to pay the ransom. Which I did. > Well, my pool shooting career was cut short because of Rock, R&B, and Jazz >music. Along the way, I > just found myself playing more gigs than shooting pool. The last time I >used that Green Plain Jane, > was back in 1967 or 68. > LOL, after all that time, while cleaning up the attic, my wife says, >what’s this thing. > Yes, she found it. The last time I put my eyes on it, was back then. > So here I sit wanting to find a game and give Plain Jane a workout. > To my surprise, New Jersey is not so much populated with pool halls as it >was years ago. So JJ > Billiards is going to get a visit from me after I finish typing this. > Yes, in the ’60s I watched Hopkins shoot nine ball at the old High Cue in >Elizabeth NJ. Not to > mention Mizerak taking over the table one night with all the side bets >going on in the gallery. > Calovito was another hot player from NJ too. > http://www.barringercues.com/aboutus1.html > http://www.palmercollector.com/Palmerhistory.html > Any of you guys ever play three cushion billards. > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, > Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers >Hi Rich, >Billiards, snooker, 8-ball, 9-ball, 3-ball….Played a bunch… I’ve won >several dollars over the years. If I’m playing a tournament type format, I >will use my own one-piece cue. If I’m playin’ beer bar (for money) 8/9 ball, >I always use a house cue. Lots of intimidation and posturing in that type of >gameplay, and I try not to let my opponent (or future opponent lurking and >trying to scope easy mark) know anything about me and what I can and can’t >do at any given moment on a table. Keeping an opponent *off-balance* >encourages judgmental errors and frustration/desperation moves and I got >him/her. >As a young child, I severely injured one of my eyes. I grew up blind in that >eye, and learned to shoot while seeing "mono". My vision difficulties kept >me from going to Viet Nam. In the late 80’s, and after several surgeries >during the 70’s-80’s, technology caught up with my eye trauma complications. >(Ironically, thanks to what was learned in Viet Nam in repairing severe >trauma) Ex-Air Force doctors restored vision in my damaged eye. >It took the repairing of the detached retina, removal of the vitreous gel >(nature’s shock absorber for the eye), a cornea transplant (from the eye of >a young man killed in a motorcycle accident….bless him!) and the >replacement of my natural lens with a permanent installed plastic lens. >After over 30 years, the eye got turned back on, and I could see in >"stereo". >My doctor encouraged me to keep shooting pool as he saw it as good physical >therapy to get this eye to catch up and properly share the load of vision, >and allow the brain to re-learn this signal input. It was hard at first, not >really trusting what I was actually seeing in regards to not only the pool >game, but driving a car, hitting a nail with a hammer,…..everything. >In the late 90’s, while working on the road in Kansas, I had a major change >of heart in regards to hustling pool. It was a Friday night in the summer, >spending the evening playing (for money) in a typical tavern in a small farm >town. A slightly drunk guy (local to that bar) was determined to whip me on >the table….I clearly out-matched him, and took his entire paycheck for the >week….That didn’t really bother me, there was no violence or worry as to >how to get out of the bar intact. I felt horrible knowing he cut hay all >week, and his wife and kids weren’t going to see squat that week for his >efforts. Sure, he was responsible for his poor judgment, but I felt >responsible for *knowing* we were not in the same league and I had the upper >hand, and it’s my burden to not let a mis-matched game wager cause distress >to the innocents involved. >The next day, I got the bartender to tell me where he lived. I went to his >home, he was at work. (go figure!) I had a very short talk with his wife and >gave her the $400 back. She had no idea what I was talking about, he hadn’t >told her (yet?). I did get free beer at that bar for the rest of the time I >spent in that town. >I won’t hustle a sucker game, I will play for a beer and such, with >anybody….That’s different. My feeling now is, two competent well matched >players ultimately will trade dollars back and forth. I will play for the >sake of the game, and see no need to attempt to "make it more interesting" >(pick a hustle line) > Cheers, > robert

Getting hustles at pool feels the same inside as reaching into that good old drunk girls pants you know you are fixing to take home and fuck and finding a dick in your hand….both real dangerous games…

Response:

I played a bit in my youth in bars in north Florida and since I had older brothers I started before I was old enough to be in bars. I thought I was pretty good until I met a guy like Robert. I didn’t lose a pay check but did lose more money than I could afford at the time to a guy who beat me with his left arm behind his back the entire game, including the break. I said entire game but that is somewhat misleading because I never got a shot. This guy, who was obviously not from the westside of Jacksonville, spent several hours in the bar goofing around at the tables playing sloppy but decent pool (with both hands). At least I learned a good lesson at an early age. Clarke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Around 1963, I got hooked on shooting pool. I just loved the game. > > I started hanging out at the High Cue in Elizabeth NJ on St George Ave. > > Every day after school, and in the mornings when they opened on week ends. > > Dutch and Lucky owned the joint. > > In the mornings, they’d teach me the fine points of the game. Dutch had > me shooting Billiards on > > that big table without any pockets. Yeah, it’s a tough game playing three > cushion billiards. > > One day Dutch tells me I have to stop using the house cues, and get a good > stick. So, he starts > > showing me these real fancy Palmer cue sticks. Boy, I can’t afford one of > those, I told him. > > So, he calls up Palmer, and they talk a bit. Dutch says no problem. I > can get a plain jane stick > > made for me. > > With that we start figuring out what type of stick would be the best for > me to have made. After > > weeks of playing with a pile of different sticks, we had most of the > details down on paper. > > So Dutch asks me, out of the blue, What color. > > I never thought of that. > > I just never thought of that. I though nothing of the plain Jane house > sticks as having any thing > > other than being wood color. > > Dutch says, pick a color. What’s your favorite color. > > He laughs and says, green it is, as he goes to the phone. > > Yes, a "green" plain Jane, I heard him say over the phone before he hung > up the phone. > > Well, about a week later I walk in and Dutch greets me and says I should > look at the cue sticks on > > the wall behind the counter. > > I look over, and there surrounded by all these fancy pool cues is this > lone green stick. > > Boy was I ever excited. Dutch hands it to me, and says, let’s try it out. > > I can’t tell you what a difference that stick had compared what I was used > to shooting with. The > > feel changed my whole stroke. The way the cue ball reacted to my stroke, > was amazing. I could do > > things with that stick, I really had to work for with the best house stick > I could find. > > Now, I had to just pay Dutch for the stick. He was going to hold it > hostage till I paid him. Well, > > 150 bucks was big money to a kid still in school back in those days. So, > I had to get my game > > together to pay the ransom. Which I did. > > Well, my pool shooting career was cut short because of Rock, R&B, and Jazz > music. Along the way, I > > just found myself playing more gigs than shooting pool. The last time I > used that Green Plain Jane, > > was back in 1967 or 68. > > LOL, after all that time, while cleaning up the attic, my wife says, > what’s this thing. > > Yes, she found it. The last time I put my eyes on it, was back then. > > So here I sit wanting to find a game and give Plain Jane a workout. > > To my surprise, New Jersey is not so much populated with pool halls as it > was years ago. So JJ > > Billiards is going to get a visit from me after I finish typing this. > > Yes, in the ’60s I watched Hopkins shoot nine ball at the old High Cue in > Elizabeth NJ. Not to > > mention Mizerak taking over the table one night with all the side bets > going on in the gallery. > > Calovito was another hot player from NJ too. > >http://www.barringercues.com/aboutus1.html > >http://www.palmercollector.com/Palmerhistory.html > > Any of you guys ever play three cushion billards. > > Regards, > > Rich Koerner, > > Time Electronics. > >http://www.timeelect.com > > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, > > Music & Studio Production, > > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers > Hi Rich, > Billiards, snooker, 8-ball, 9-ball, 3-ball….Played a bunch… I’ve won > several dollars over the years. If I’m playing a tournament type format, I > will use my own one-piece cue. If I’m playin’ beer bar (for money) 8/9 ball, > I always use a house cue. Lots of intimidation and posturing in that type of > gameplay, and I try not to let my opponent (or future opponent lurking and > trying to scope easy mark) know anything about me and what I can and can’t > do at any given moment on a table. Keeping an opponent *off-balance* > encourages judgmental errors and frustration/desperation moves and I got > him/her. > As a young child, I severely injured one of my eyes. I grew up blind in that > eye, and learned to shoot while seeing "mono". My vision difficulties kept > me from going to Viet Nam. In the late 80’s, and after several surgeries > during the 70’s-80’s, technology caught up with my eye trauma complications. > (Ironically, thanks to what was learned in Viet Nam in repairing severe > trauma) Ex-Air Force doctors restored vision in my damaged eye. > It took the repairing of the detached retina, removal of the vitreous gel > (nature’s shock absorber for the eye), a cornea transplant (from the eye of > a young man killed in a motorcycle accident….bless him!) and the > replacement of my natural lens with a permanent installed plastic lens. > After over 30 years, the eye got turned back on, and I could see in > "stereo". > My doctor encouraged me to keep shooting pool as he saw it as good physical > therapy to get this eye to catch up and properly share the load of vision, > and allow the brain to re-learn this signal input. It was hard at first, not > really trusting what I was actually seeing in regards to not only the pool > game, but driving a car, hitting a nail with a hammer,…..everything. > In the late 90’s, while working on the road in Kansas, I had a major change > of heart in regards to hustling pool. It was a Friday night in the summer, > spending the evening playing (for money) in a typical tavern in a small farm > town. A slightly drunk guy (local to that bar) was determined to whip me on > the table….I clearly out-matched him, and took his entire paycheck for the > week….That didn’t really bother me, there was no violence or worry as to > how to get out of the bar intact. I felt horrible knowing he cut hay all > week, and his wife and kids weren’t going to see squat that week for his > efforts. Sure, he was responsible for his poor judgment, but I felt > responsible for *knowing* we were not in the same league and I had the upper > hand, and it’s my burden to not let a mis-matched game wager cause distress > to the innocents involved. > The next day, I got the bartender to tell me where he lived. I went to his > home, he was at work. (go figure!) I had a very short talk with his wife and > gave her the $400 back. She had no idea what I was talking about, he hadn’t > told her (yet?). I did get free beer at that bar for the rest of the time I > spent in that town. > I won’t hustle a sucker game, I will play for a beer and such, with > anybody….That’s different. My feeling now is, two competent well matched > players ultimately will trade dollars back and forth. I will play for the > sake of the game, and see no need to attempt to "make it more interesting" > (pick a hustle line) > Cheers, > robertVery cool of you. Yeah, I’ve got a few stories from those days. Like the time me and Coop with to > NYC to hustle a few. Coop had a little too much to drink, and lost his cool. LOL, he freaking > brakes, and runs the table twice in a row. So I grab the keys to slip out and get the car running. > I pull up, open the passenger door, hit the horn, and pray. > Damn, that was close. Never went out for a game with Coop again after that. I had to lay low in NY > after that. From then on I played solo. Went looking for a better class of game too. > I really love the challenge of making the shot. What ever it happens to be. From the three cushion > playing, I would make shots others would never think of making. It was hard to play safe on me. > Once, in a game of 8 ball, this fellow plays a good safe on me hiding the cue ball behind his two > remaining balls so I can’t see the 8. I pull a four cushion shot, and dropped the 8. > LOL, I surprised myself with that shot. > After the band stuff took off, many times I just went down to the High Cue just to hang out with the > guys I knew. Everyone asked why I wasn’t around much. When I told them I was a musician, they all > were surprised. > After a while, I just lost touch with them, and the game. > From time to time, if there was a pool table in the club, I’d shoot a friendly game or two just for > the fun of it. > Now that I’ve come back to playing in the clubs, especially up at Orphan Annie’s, I’d get a game or > two in between sets. > After I posted, I had to check out JJ’s really fast on the way to meet friend later on at Orphan > Annie’s. > While I waited, I pulled out old Plain Jane, to try

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>Here’s a real shocker for ya. I called up JJ’s, and asked if they had a regulation billiards table >to shoot three cushion. He said no one plays that anymore. He thinks he heard there may be one >left in NYC some where. >Damn, most every real pool hall had ‘em back in the ’60s.

There was a "real" pool hall on 160th and B’way, a block from our apartment in Washington Heights. Talkin’ 50s – 60s here. Had five or six 4×8s, a three-cushion table and two or three tournament-size pocket billiard tables. Even had a tiny grandstand by one of ‘em. Refrigerator stocked with beer and soda, pay the man and help yourself. I never was any good at pool but when I’d stop off and shoot a few racks on one of the big tables and then stroll another couple blocks to my favorite neighborhood bar I could play and drink free all night on their weenie coin table. After a little practice on the big one it was almost too easy. Was a big-time pool hall down on 14th street, blanking out on the name, sorry, but if it’s still there I bet they have a 3-cushion table. Tejas Pedro

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> Getting hustles at pool feels the same inside as reaching into that > good old drunk girls pants you know you are fixing to take home and > fuck and finding a dick in your hand….both real dangerous games…

No comment necessary

Response:

> I played a bit in my youth in bars in north Florida and since I had > older brothers

Homosexual. The end.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Around 1963, I got hooked on shooting pool. I just loved the game. > I started hanging out at the High Cue in Elizabeth NJ on St George Ave. > Every day after school, and in the mornings when they opened on week ends. > Dutch and Lucky owned the joint. > In the mornings, they’d teach me the fine points of the game. Dutch had me shooting Billiards on > that big table without any pockets. Yeah, it’s a tough game playing three cushion billiards. > One day Dutch tells me I have to stop using the house cues, and get a good stick. So, he starts > showing me these real fancy Palmer cue sticks. Boy, I can’t afford one of those, I told him. > So, he calls up Palmer, and they talk a bit. Dutch says no problem. I can get a plain jane stick > made for me. > With that we start figuring out what type of stick would be the best for me to have made. After > weeks of playing with a pile of different sticks, we had most of the details down on paper. > So Dutch asks me, out of the blue, What color. > I never thought of that. > I just never thought of that. I though nothing of the plain Jane house sticks as having any thing > other than being wood color. > Dutch says, pick a color. What’s your favorite color. > He laughs and says, green it is, as he goes to the phone. > Yes, a "green" plain Jane, I heard him say over the phone before he hung up the phone. > Well, about a week later I walk in and Dutch greets me and says I should look at the cue sticks on > the wall behind the counter. > I look over, and there surrounded by all these fancy pool cues is this lone green stick. > Boy was I ever excited. Dutch hands it to me, and says, let’s try it out. > I can’t tell you what a difference that stick had compared what I was used to shooting with. The > feel changed my whole stroke. The way the cue ball reacted to my stroke, was amazing. I could do > things with that stick, I really had to work for with the best house stick I could find. > Now, I had to just pay Dutch for the stick. He was going to hold it hostage till I paid him. Well, > 150 bucks was big money to a kid still in school back in those days. So, I had to get my game > together to pay the ransom. Which I did. > Well, my pool shooting career was cut short because of Rock, R&B, and Jazz music. Along the way, I > just found myself playing more gigs than shooting pool. The last time I used that Green Plain Jane, > was back in 1967 or 68. > LOL, after all that time, while cleaning up the attic, my wife says, what’s this thing. > Yes, she found it. The last time I put my eyes on it, was back then. > So here I sit wanting to find a game and give Plain Jane a workout. > To my surprise, New Jersey is not so much populated with pool halls as it was years ago. So JJ > Billiards is going to get a visit from me after I finish typing this. > Yes, in the ’60s I watched Hopkins shoot nine ball at the old High Cue in Elizabeth NJ. Not to > mention Mizerak taking over the table one night with all the side bets going on in the gallery. > Calovito was another hot player from NJ too. > http://www.barringercues.com/aboutus1.html > http://www.palmercollector.com/Palmerhistory.html > Any of you guys ever play three cushion billards.

Twice… you have to be hard-core, know your markers, and be able to REALLY control the ball… tough game to be ‘good’ at.. Now… snooker… THERE is a game that’ll make a pool-player out of you. I GUARANTEE… plain and simple, anybody who shoots snooker for two months will be TEN TIMES the pool player (pocket billiards) afterwards… I can’t find a snooker table in ALL of south jersey…. none. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, > Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

My first time with Dutch drove me nuts. I could not SEE the angles. He would draw thing out on paper for me, and that got me confused all the more. I guess I drove Dutch nuts too. But then, he explained things a little different to me, using 90 degree and 45 degree angles, and how they open and close up with respect to the way the ball travels in a box. After that, I started to SEE how things worked. I started to get an eye for it. Every time I played a three cushion game with Dutch, He’d go point after point making some shots the just killed me. I never could get up to that level of play. Once he made a shot where he used a lot of english, and that cue ball came off the cushion at such an angle, made the other two cushions, and setup the balls by together by one cushion. From that point, he moved the balls very little, and kept using the same cue ball pattern, and ran point after point, after point, etc…. It was like that damn cue ball of his kept coming back to the same place, with out him moving the other two balls very much from their position on the table. There was a name for that type of setup for billiard play. But I forgot what he called it. For as old as Dutch was when I knew him, he was KILLER on the table. I could only imagine how great he was in his prime. > Now… snooker… THERE is a game that’ll make a pool-player out of > you. I GUARANTEE… plain and simple, anybody who shoots snooker for > two months will be TEN TIMES the pool player (pocket billiards) > afterwards… > I can’t find a snooker table in ALL of south jersey…. none.

When I went out on one of the Spin Doctor tours, the tour manager was this English cat from England. One night on the tour bus when the both of us could not fall asleep, Graham was telling me about snooker and his snooker days in England as a kid. We laughed at our misspent youth, being the two oldest guys on the tour. He was old friends with Chas Chandler, and told me some of their experiences together that night too. I never had a chance to shoot snooker. I know nothing of the game, except for what Graham told me about it. Hey, if you get up in this area, let’s poke the white ball on the table a bit at JJ’s, and later hit the club for a tune or two. Or, if you can get up here on the fourth Tues. of the month, we’ll hit the Goat for some improv, and then hit JJ’s. You down for it. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Around 1963, I got hooked on shooting pool. I just loved the game. >>I started hanging out at the High Cue in Elizabeth NJ on St George Ave. >>Every day after school, and in the mornings when they opened on week ends. >>Dutch and Lucky owned the joint. >>In the mornings, they’d teach me the fine points of the game. Dutch had me shooting Billiards on >>that big table without any pockets. Yeah, it’s a tough game playing three cushion billiards. >>One day Dutch tells me I have to stop using the house cues, and get a good stick. So, he starts >>showing me these real fancy Palmer cue sticks. Boy, I can’t afford one of those, I told him. >>So, he calls up Palmer, and they talk a bit. Dutch says no problem. I can get a plain jane stick >>made for me. >>With that we start figuring out what type of stick would be the best for me to have made. After >>weeks of playing with a pile of different sticks, we had most of the details down on paper. >>So Dutch asks me, out of the blue, What color. >>I never thought of that. >>I just never thought of that. I though nothing of the plain Jane house sticks as having any thing >>other than being wood color. >>Dutch says, pick a color. What’s your favorite color. >>He laughs and says, green it is, as he goes to the phone. >>Yes, a "green" plain Jane, I heard him say over the phone before he hung up the phone. >>Well, about a week later I walk in and Dutch greets me and says I should look at the cue sticks on >>the wall behind the counter. >>I look over, and there surrounded by all these fancy pool cues is this lone green stick. >>Boy was I ever excited. Dutch hands it to me, and says, let’s try it out. >>I can’t tell you what a difference that stick had compared what I was used to shooting with. The >>feel changed my whole stroke. The way the cue ball reacted to my stroke, was amazing. I could do >>things with that stick, I really had to work for with the best house stick I could find. >>Now, I had to just pay Dutch for the stick. He was going to hold it hostage till I paid him. Well, >>150 bucks was big money to a kid still in school back in those days. So, I had to get my game >>together to pay the ransom. Which I did. >>Well, my pool shooting career was cut short because of Rock, R&B, and Jazz music. Along the way, I >>just found myself playing more gigs than shooting pool. The last time I used that Green Plain Jane, >>was back in 1967 or 68. >>LOL, after all that time, while cleaning up the attic, my wife says, what’s this thing. >>Yes, she found it. The last time I put my eyes on it, was back then. >>So here I sit wanting to find a game and give Plain Jane a workout. >>To my surprise, New Jersey is not so much populated with pool halls as it was years ago. So JJ >>Billiards is going to get a visit from me after I finish typing this. >>Yes, in the ’60s I watched Hopkins shoot nine ball at the old High Cue in Elizabeth NJ. Not to >>mention Mizerak taking over the table one night with all the side bets going on in the gallery. >>Calovito was another hot player from NJ too. >>http://www.barringercues.com/aboutus1.html >>http://www.palmercollector.com/Palmerhistory.html >>Any of you guys ever play three cushion billards. >Twice… you have to be hard-core, know your markers, and be able to >REALLY control the ball… tough game to be ‘good’ at.. > My first time with Dutch drove me nuts. I could not SEE the angles. He would draw thing out on > paper for me, and that got me confused all the more. I guess I drove Dutch nuts too. > But then, he explained things a little different to me, using 90 degree and 45 degree angles, and > how they open and close up with respect to the way the ball travels in a box. After that, I started > to SEE how things worked. I started to get an eye for it. > Every time I played a three cushion game with Dutch, He’d go point after point making some shots the > just killed me. I never could get up to that level of play. > Once he made a shot where he used a lot of english, and that cue ball came off the cushion at such > an angle, made the other two cushions, and setup the balls by together by one cushion. > From that point, he moved the balls very little, and kept using the same cue ball pattern, and ran > point after point, after point, etc…. It was like that damn cue ball of his kept coming back to > the same place, with out him moving the other two balls very much from their position on the table. > There was a name for that type of setup for billiard play. But I forgot what he called it. > For as old as Dutch was when I knew him, he was KILLER on the table. I could only imagine how great > he was in his prime. >Now… snooker… THERE is a game that’ll make a pool-player out of >you. I GUARANTEE… plain and simple, anybody who shoots snooker for >two months will be TEN TIMES the pool player (pocket billiards) >afterwards… >I can’t find a snooker table in ALL of south jersey…. none. > When I went out on one of the Spin Doctor tours, the tour manager was this English cat from England. > One night on the tour bus when the both of us could not fall asleep, Graham was telling me about > snooker and his snooker days in England as a kid. We laughed at our misspent youth, being the two > oldest guys on the tour. > He was old friends with Chas Chandler, and told me some of their experiences together that night > too. > I never had a chance to shoot snooker. I know nothing of the game, except for what Graham told me > about it.

The *difference*, and what a huge difference, is the ‘curved’ rails going into the pockets. ’Good’ pocket-billiards players go nuts when shot after shot comes ‘back out’ of the pocket. The cue ball can get ‘inside’ the pocket, still on the table, and the rail BLOCKS your shot..!!!! UGH..!!!! The ball has to have the correct english if you are to ’slop’ one in, otherwize it catches the cushion ‘inside’ the pocket, and ‘wobbles’ likely it is to come back out. So much for ‘power shots’… This basically elliminates the ‘long’ rail-shots… they plain won’t go in (unless you REALLY get some english going on the ball. And even then it’ll still mostly come out.). It forces one to shoot more ‘directly’ at pockets and use the cushions, or higher angle cut-shots to gain a more ‘open’ shot. At pocket billiards, the pocket is essentially anything between the corners of the ‘inside’ cushion. Not so in snooker. You begin to see ONLY the available opening of the pocket itself… plus a TINY BIT of cushion. Looking at the table in pocket billiards, one begins to look at ALL the ‘available’ shots differently after shooting snooker… using the ’slop’ shots for last-resort when NO other shots are available. I played a LOT of snooker back in the 70s MAINLY because there were two snooker tables at the place we played, and nobody played them. So while waiting for a table to open up, my buddy and I decided to try a game. The guy running the place gave us the ‘lecture’ and off we went. We played for over two hours and didn’t finish ONE game..!!! (LOL..!) But we kept at it, and eventually learned to read the table, use the cushions, and control the ball… After a couple months, we tried ‘regular’ pool again… whoever broke, usually ran the table if a ball went in… neither of us ever had more than two turns before the game was over. We went back to snooker because it is a more intricate game and exacting (imho), and has more chance for interesting play… > Hey, if you get up in this area, let’s poke the white ball on the table a bit at JJ’s, and later hit > the club for a tune or two. > Or, if you can get up here on the fourth Tues. of the month, we’ll hit the Goat for some improv, and > then hit JJ’s. > You down for it.

You bet.!!! My schedule is pretty tied up… Tuesdays are possible… I’ll get in touch… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, > Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>Around 1963, I got hooked on shooting pool. I just loved the game. >>>I started hanging out at the High Cue in Elizabeth NJ on St George Ave. >>>Every day after school, and in the mornings when they opened on week ends. >>>Dutch and Lucky owned the joint. >>>In the mornings, they’d teach me the fine points of the game. Dutch had me shooting Billiards on >>>that big table without any pockets. Yeah, it’s a tough game playing three cushion billiards. >>>One day Dutch tells me I have to stop using the house cues, and get a good stick. So, he starts >>>showing me these real fancy Palmer cue sticks. Boy, I can’t afford one of those, I told him. >>>So, he calls up Palmer, and they talk a bit. Dutch says no problem. I can get a plain jane stick >>>made for me. >>>With that we start figuring out what type of stick would be the best for me to have made. After >>>weeks of playing with a pile of different sticks, we had most of the details down on paper. >>>So Dutch asks me, out of the blue, What color. >>>I never thought of that. >>>I just never thought of that. I though nothing of the plain Jane house sticks as having any thing >>>other than being wood color. >>>Dutch says, pick a color. What’s your favorite color. >>>He laughs and says, green it is, as he goes to the phone. >>>Yes, a "green" plain Jane, I heard him say over the phone before he hung up the phone. >>>Well, about a week later I walk in and Dutch greets me and says I should look at the cue sticks on >>>the wall behind the counter. >>>I look over, and there surrounded by all these fancy pool cues is this lone green stick. >>>Boy was I ever excited. Dutch hands it to me, and says, let’s try it out. >>>I can’t tell you what a difference that stick had compared what I was used to shooting with. The >>>feel changed my whole stroke. The way the cue ball reacted to my stroke, was amazing. I could do >>>things with that stick, I really had to work for with the best house stick I could find. >>>Now, I had to just pay Dutch for the stick. He was going to hold it hostage till I paid him. Well, >>>150 bucks was big money to a kid still in school back in those days. So, I had to get my game >>>together to pay the ransom. Which I did. >>>Well, my pool shooting career was cut short because of Rock, R&B, and Jazz music. Along the way, I >>>just found myself playing more gigs than shooting pool. The last time I used that Green Plain Jane, >>>was back in 1967 or 68. >>>LOL, after all that time, while cleaning up the attic, my wife says, what’s this thing. >>>Yes, she found it. The last time I put my eyes on it, was back then. >>>So here I sit wanting to find a game and give Plain Jane a workout. >>>To my surprise, New Jersey is not so much populated with pool halls as it was years ago. So JJ >>>Billiards is going to get a visit from me after I finish typing this. >>>Yes, in the ’60s I watched Hopkins shoot nine ball at the old High Cue in Elizabeth NJ. Not to >>>mention Mizerak taking over the table one night with all the side bets going on in the gallery. >>>Calovito was another hot player from NJ too. >>>http://www.barringercues.com/aboutus1.html >>>http://www.palmercollector.com/Palmerhistory.html >>>Any of you guys ever play three cushion billards. >>Twice… you have to be hard-core, know your markers, and be able to >>REALLY control the ball… tough game to be ‘good’ at.. > My first time with Dutch drove me nuts. I could not SEE the angles. He would draw thing out on > paper for me, and that got me confused all the more. I guess I drove Dutch nuts too. > But then, he explained things a little different to me, using 90 degree and 45 degree angles, and > how they open and close up with respect to the way the ball travels in a box. After that, I started > to SEE how things worked. I started to get an eye for it. > Every time I played a three cushion game with Dutch, He’d go point after point making some shots the > just killed me. I never could get up to that level of play. > Once he made a shot where he used a lot of english, and that cue ball came off the cushion at such > an angle, made the other two cushions, and setup the balls by together by one cushion. > From that point, he moved the balls very little, and kept using the same cue ball pattern, and ran > point after point, after point, etc…. It was like that damn cue ball of his kept coming back to > the same place, with out him moving the other two balls very much from their position on the table. > There was a name for that type of setup for billiard play. But I forgot what he called it. > For as old as Dutch was when I knew him, he was KILLER on the table. I could only imagine how great > he was in his prime. >>Now… snooker… THERE is a game that’ll make a pool-player out of >>you. I GUARANTEE… plain and simple, anybody who shoots snooker for >>two months will be TEN TIMES the pool player (pocket billiards) >>afterwards… >>I can’t find a snooker table in ALL of south jersey…. none. > When I went out on one of the Spin Doctor tours, the tour manager was this English cat from England. > One night on the tour bus when the both of us could not fall asleep, Graham was telling me about > snooker and his snooker days in England as a kid. We laughed at our misspent youth, being the two > oldest guys on the tour. > He was old friends with Chas Chandler, and told me some of their experiences together that night > too. > I never had a chance to shoot snooker. I know nothing of the game, except for what Graham told me > about it. > The *difference*, and what a huge difference, is the ‘curved’ rails > going into the pockets. ’Good’ pocket-billiards players go nuts when > shot after shot comes ‘back out’ of the pocket. The cue ball can get > ‘inside’ the pocket, still on the table, and the rail BLOCKS your > shot..!!!! UGH..!!!! > The ball has to have the correct english if you are to ’slop’ one in, > otherwize it catches the cushion ‘inside’ the pocket, and ‘wobbles’ > likely it is to come back out. So much for ‘power shots’… > This basically elliminates the ‘long’ rail-shots… they plain won’t > go in (unless you REALLY get some english going on the ball. And even > then it’ll still mostly come out.). It forces one to shoot more > ‘directly’ at pockets and use the cushions, or higher angle cut-shots > to gain a more ‘open’ shot. At pocket billiards, the pocket is > essentially anything between the corners of the ‘inside’ cushion. Not > so in snooker. You begin to see ONLY the available opening of the > pocket itself… plus a TINY BIT of cushion. > Looking at the table in pocket billiards, one begins to look at ALL > the ‘available’ shots differently after shooting snooker… using the > ’slop’ shots for last-resort when NO other shots are available. > I played a LOT of snooker back in the 70s MAINLY because there were > two snooker tables at the place we played, and nobody played them. So > while waiting for a table to open up, my buddy and I decided to try a > game. The guy running the place gave us the ‘lecture’ and off we went. > We played for over two hours and didn’t finish ONE game..!!! > (LOL..!) > But we kept at it, and eventually learned to read the table, use the > cushions, and control the ball… > After a couple months, we tried ‘regular’ pool again… whoever broke, > usually ran the table if a ball went in… neither of us ever had more > than two turns before the game was over. > We went back to snooker because it is a more intricate game and > exacting (imho), and has more chance for interesting play… > Hey, if you get up in this area, let’s poke the white ball on the table a bit at JJ’s, and later hit > the club for a tune or two. > Or, if you can get up here on the fourth Tues. of the month, we’ll hit the Goat for some improv, and > then hit JJ’s. > You down for it. > You bet.!!! > My schedule is pretty tied up… Tuesdays are possible… I’ll get > in touch…

With a little heads up, maybe I can round up some of the boys too. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

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In: Travel England

Katrina's ferocity attributable to global warming

Question:

An increase in the ferocity of hurricanes around the globe over the last 35 years may be attributable to global warming, a new report states. The study, which appears in the Sept. 16 issue of the journal Science, is perhaps one of the strongest scientific statements yet on a connection between hurricane activity and global warming. "I’m heading towards being a little less cautious," study lead author Peter J. Webster, professor at the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, said at a news conference Wednesday. "I think [rising] sea surface temperature is a global-warming effect and I think the change in [hurricane] intensity, which is a universal thing, is following sea surface temperature." Webster was referring to a demonstrated increase in the sea surface temperature (SST) of about half a degree centigrade since 1970. Scientists have hypothesized that higher sea surface temperatures result in greater hurricane intensity. — Martha

Response:

Martha craftsman??? Yeah that sounds like a real name…. Yo bitch… You got anything amp related to contribute? —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> An increase in the ferocity of hurricanes around the globe over the last > 35 years may be attributable to global warming, a new report states. > The study, which appears in the Sept. 16 issue of the journal Science, is > perhaps one of the strongest scientific statements yet on a connection > between hurricane activity and global warming. > "I’m heading towards being a little less cautious," study lead author > Peter J. Webster, professor at the School of Earth and Atmospheric > Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, said at a news > conference Wednesday. "I think [rising] sea surface temperature is a > global-warming effect and I think the change in [hurricane] intensity, > which is a universal thing, is following sea surface temperature." > Webster was referring to a demonstrated increase in the sea surface > temperature (SST) of about half a degree centigrade since 1970. Scientists > have hypothesized that higher sea surface temperatures result in greater > hurricane intensity. > — Martha

Response:

> Martha craftsman??? Yeah that sounds like a real name…. > Yo bitch… > You got anything amp related to contribute?

Young man, you have a nasty mouth! Say a prayer and get off to bed. Jesus loves you. http://www.ampsforchrist.com/ Mamie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > An increase in the ferocity of hurricanes around the globe over the last 35 years may be attributable to global warming, a new > report states. > The study, which appears in the Sept. 16 issue of the journal Science, is perhaps one of the strongest scientific statements yet > on a connection between hurricane activity and global warming. > "I’m heading towards being a little less cautious," study lead author Peter J. Webster, professor at the School of Earth and > Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, said at a news conference Wednesday. "I think [rising] > sea surface temperature is a global-warming effect and I think the change in [hurricane] intensity, which is a universal thing, > is following sea surface temperature." > Webster was referring to a demonstrated increase in the sea surface temperature (SST) of about half a degree centigrade since > 1970. Scientists have hypothesized that higher sea surface temperatures result in greater hurricane intensity. > — Martha

It seems that this hypothesizing is less than objective, mostly subjective, and really just a baseless suggestive thought without foundation. Take two related factors, add ANY third, and through ratio and proportion, linkage is established. Never the less, the appearances of linkage now appear, in spite baseless dot connection. For example, from http://www.grammy.com/news/newswatch/2005/0803.aspx We take the following information: July Marks New High In P2P Use BigChampagne released numbers this week suggesting that the average user base on P2P networks continued to grow in July, with global use increasing to 9.5 million, and use in the United States increasing to 6.9 million. Globally, P2P use has increased 25.1 percent from the same period last year, and the United States has seen a 33.3 percent increase from July 2004. (8/2) Then, from the previous, we have: > Webster was referring to a demonstrated increase in the sea surface temperature (SST) > of about half a degree centigrade since 1970. Scientists have hypothesized that higher > sea surface temperatures result in greater hurricane intensity.

So, let’s grab the calculator, and connect the dots. Over a 35 year period, a change of .5 degrees C has been recorded. Thus, a yield of .014 degrees C increase per year. During this one year period, there was also a global increase in P2P usage 25.1% with the United States being responsible for the larger portion by the reported 6.9 million, compared to the global figure of 9.5 million. Clearly, these figures shows the United States "IS" the big time *abuser* when compared to the rest of the world’s GLOBAL usage figure of 2.6 million for this SAME one year time period. Therefore, the increased pollution to support the production of the electricity REQUIRED for such a disproportionate usage comparison to the rest of the world,… the United States ALONE, has raised the global warming temperature for a one year period by an approximate factor of .01 degrees C per year. Clearly, the United States is the largest energy wasting global warming polluter, because of it’s disproportionate use of P2P. How can the world stand by and do nothing in the face of such figures. The United States ALONE, pollutes enough to raise the earth’s temperature .01 degrees C per year. While, the rest of the WORLD is only contributing .004 degrees C. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> An increase in the ferocity of hurricanes around the globe over the last 35 years may be attributable to global warming, a new > report states. > The study, which appears in the Sept. 16 issue of the journal Science, is perhaps one of the strongest scientific statements yet > on a connection between hurricane activity and global warming. > "I’m heading towards being a little less cautious," study lead author Peter J. Webster, professor at the School of Earth and > Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, said at a news conference Wednesday. "I think [rising] > sea surface temperature is a global-warming effect and I think the change in [hurricane] intensity, which is a universal thing, > is following sea surface temperature." > Webster was referring to a demonstrated increase in the sea surface temperature (SST) of about half a degree centigrade since > 1970. Scientists have hypothesized that higher sea surface temperatures result in greater hurricane intensity. > — Martha > It seems that this hypothesizing is less than objective, mostly subjective, and really just a > baseless suggestive thought without foundation. > Take two related factors, add ANY third, and through ratio and proportion, linkage is established. > Never the less, the appearances of linkage now appear, in spite baseless dot connection. > For example, from http://www.grammy.com/news/newswatch/2005/0803.aspx > We take the following information: > July Marks New High In P2P Use > BigChampagne released numbers this week suggesting that the average user base on P2P networks > continued to grow in July, with global use increasing to 9.5 million, and use in the United States > increasing to 6.9 million. Globally, P2P use has increased 25.1 percent from the same period last > year, and the United States has seen a 33.3 percent increase from July 2004. (8/2) > Then, from the previous, we have: > Webster was referring to a demonstrated increase in the sea surface temperature (SST) > of about half a degree centigrade since 1970. Scientists have hypothesized that higher > sea surface temperatures result in greater hurricane intensity. > So, let’s grab the calculator, and connect the dots. > Over a 35 year period, a change of .5 degrees C has been recorded. Thus, a yield of .014 degrees C > increase per year. > During this one year period, there was also a global increase in P2P usage 25.1% with the United > States being responsible for the larger portion by the reported 6.9 million, compared to the global > figure of 9.5 million. > Clearly, these figures shows the United States "IS" the big time *abuser* when compared to the rest > of the world’s GLOBAL usage figure of 2.6 million for this SAME one year time period. > Therefore, the increased pollution to support the production of the electricity REQUIRED for such a > disproportionate usage comparison to the rest of the world,… the United States ALONE, has raised > the global warming temperature for a one year period by an approximate factor of .01 degrees C per > year. > Clearly, the United States is the largest energy wasting global warming polluter, because of it’s > disproportionate use of P2P. > How can the world stand by and do nothing in the face of such figures. The United States ALONE, > pollutes enough to raise the earth’s temperature .01 degrees C per year. While, the rest of the > WORLD is only contributing .004 degrees C.

Oh, I forgot to mention,….. They ARE accurate. Push the buttons on your calculator. You’ll see…… Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

> > An increase in the ferocity of hurricanes around the globe over the

last 35 years may be attributable to global warming, a new > > report states. > > The study, which appears in the Sept. 16 issue of the journal Science,

is perhaps one of the strongest scientific statements yet > > on a connection between hurricane activity and global warming. > > "I’m heading towards being a little less cautious," study lead author

Peter J. Webster, professor at the School of Earth and > > Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology in

Atlanta, said at a news conference Wednesday. "I think [rising] > > sea surface temperature is a global-warming effect and I think the

change in [hurricane] intensity, which is a universal thing, > > is following sea surface temperature." > > Webster was referring to a demonstrated increase in the sea surface

temperature (SST) of about half a degree centigrade since > > 1970. Scientists have hypothesized that higher sea surface

temperatures result in greater hurricane intensity. > > — Martha

!!!!!!! > It seems that this hypothesizing is less than objective, mostly

subjective, and really just a > baseless suggestive thought without foundation. > Take two related factors, add ANY third, and through ratio and

proportion, linkage is established. > Never the less, the appearances of linkage now appear, in spite baseless dot connection. > For example, from http://www.grammy.com/news/newswatch/2005/0803.aspx > We take the following information: > July Marks New High In P2P Use > BigChampagne released numbers this week suggesting that the average user

base on P2P networks > continued to grow in July, with global use increasing to 9.5 million,

and use in the United States > increasing to 6.9 million. Globally, P2P use has increased 25.1 percent

from the same period last > year, and the United States has seen a 33.3 percent increase from July 2004. (8/2) > Then, from the previous, we have: > > Webster was referring to a demonstrated increase in the sea surface temperature (SST) > > of about half a degree centigrade since 1970. Scientists have

hypothesized that higher > > sea surface temperatures result in greater hurricane intensity. > So, let’s grab the calculator, and connect the dots. > Over a 35 year period, a change of .5 degrees C has been recorded. Thus,

a yield of .014 degrees C > increase per year. > During this one year period, there was also a global increase in P2P

usage 25.1% with the United > States being responsible for the larger portion by the reported 6.9

million, compared to the global > figure of 9.5 million. > Clearly, these figures shows the United States "IS" the big time

*abuser* when compared to the rest > of the world’s GLOBAL usage figure of 2.6 million for this SAME one year time period. > Therefore, the increased pollution to support the production of the

electricity REQUIRED for such a > disproportionate usage comparison to the rest of the world,… the

United States ALONE, has raised > the global warming temperature for a one year period by an approximate

factor of .01 degrees C per > year. > Clearly, the United States is the largest energy wasting global warming

polluter, because of it’s > disproportionate use of P2P. > How can the world stand by and do nothing in the face of such figures.

The United States ALONE, > pollutes enough to raise the earth’s temperature .01 degrees C per year.

While, the rest of the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> WORLD is only contributing .004 degrees C. > Oh, I forgot to mention,….. > They ARE accurate. > Push the buttons on your calculator. > You’ll see…… > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, > Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

All right, but how do you account for John Kerry and the Dung Beatles?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>An increase in the ferocity of hurricanes around the globe over the last 35 years may be attributable to global warming, a new >>report states. >>The study, which appears in the Sept. 16 issue of the journal Science, is perhaps one of the strongest scientific statements yet >>on a connection between hurricane activity and global warming. >>"I’m heading towards being a little less cautious," study lead author Peter J. Webster, professor at the School of Earth and >>Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, said at a news conference Wednesday. "I think [rising] >>sea surface temperature is a global-warming effect and I think the change in [hurricane] intensity, which is a universal thing, >>is following sea surface temperature." >>Webster was referring to a demonstrated increase in the sea surface temperature (SST) of about half a degree centigrade since >>1970. Scientists have hypothesized that higher sea surface temperatures result in greater hurricane intensity. >>– Martha >It seems that this hypothesizing is less than objective, mostly subjective, and really just a >baseless suggestive thought without foundation. >Take two related factors, add ANY third, and through ratio and proportion, linkage is established. >Never the less, the appearances of linkage now appear, in spite baseless dot connection. >For example, from http://www.grammy.com/news/newswatch/2005/0803.aspx >We take the following information: >July Marks New High In P2P Use >BigChampagne released numbers this week suggesting that the average user base on P2P networks >continued to grow in July, with global use increasing to 9.5 million, and use in the United States >increasing to 6.9 million. Globally, P2P use has increased 25.1 percent from the same period last >year, and the United States has seen a 33.3 percent increase from July 2004. (8/2) >Then, from the previous, we have: >>Webster was referring to a demonstrated increase in the sea surface temperature (SST) >>of about half a degree centigrade since 1970. Scientists have hypothesized that higher >>sea surface temperatures result in greater hurricane intensity. >So, let’s grab the calculator, and connect the dots. >Over a 35 year period, a change of .5 degrees C has been recorded. Thus, a yield of .014 degrees C >increase per year. >During this one year period, there was also a global increase in P2P usage 25.1% with the United >States being responsible for the larger portion by the reported 6.9 million, compared to the global >figure of 9.5 million. >Clearly, these figures shows the United States "IS" the big time *abuser* when compared to the rest >of the world’s GLOBAL usage figure of 2.6 million for this SAME one year time period. >Therefore, the increased pollution to support the production of the electricity REQUIRED for such a >disproportionate usage comparison to the rest of the world,… the United States ALONE, has raised >the global warming temperature for a one year period by an approximate factor of .01 degrees C per >year. >Clearly, the United States is the largest energy wasting global warming polluter, because of it’s >disproportionate use of P2P. >How can the world stand by and do nothing in the face of such figures. The United States ALONE, >pollutes enough to raise the earth’s temperature .01 degrees C per year. While, the rest of the >WORLD is only contributing .004 degrees C. > Oh, I forgot to mention,….. > They ARE accurate. > Push the buttons on your calculator. > You’ll see…… > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, > Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Rich, speaking of global warming… ( I can’t remember where I read this, maybe Economics mag, or WSJ, or ??) but… in England after crunching "their numbers", they’ve decided that the amount of green-house gasses being emmitted by the *ground* has increased over the years. This increase has been equal to, or slightly larger, the amount of the "reduction" by ALL emittions reductions put in place in England. Thus, Englands net emissions has remained the same even with all the man-made reductions put in place. This might be news to some folks… the earth emits green-house gases all on it’s own. Further, the degrading magnetic field of the earth will probably cause an increase in volcanic activity… one decent volcanic eruption puts more gases into the air than… well.. Someone certainly should be measuring how the human race (G. Bush specifically) is damaging the earths magnetic feild..! ! ! ! Someone, somewhere, (I read this too…) beleives that when Mars had a magnetic feild, it was much more like earth. Folks, we do NOT want to lose our magnetic field..! ! ! ! ! Sorry for making a bit of fun about all the "chicken littles"… I actually pretty much support pollution controls, but I’ve travelled a bit and the USA is WAY cleaner than most of the world in most ways. I also think that pollution controls should be stressed mostly where they will have the biggest *impact* pollution wise. But that’s a whole other discussion… Hope your summer went well Rich..! ! gtski

Response:

Yeah remember when they thought the ozone layer thing was bullshit? Could be kinda like that… Somehow I doubt the earth emits gasses of it’s own to match the millions of tons of CO2 coming from millions of combustion engines.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Martha craftsman??? Yeah that sounds like a real name…. > Yo bitch… > You got anything amp related to contribute? > Young man, you have a nasty mouth! Say a prayer and get off to bed. > Jesus loves you. > http://www.ampsforchrist.com/ > Mamie

Dustin?

Response:

> Yeah remember when they thought the ozone layer thing was bullshit? > Could be kinda like that… > Somehow I doubt the earth emits gasses of it’s own to match the > millions of tons of CO2 coming from millions of combustion engines.

Well, there you have it. No doubt that you’re an idiot now.

Response:

Lush Blowjob has reported that all reports of global warming are false alarms created by the liberal media to worry and confuse the confuse, and to sway them to vote against Bush to turn the tide back towards to global cooling trend. Since Lush said it, and was backed up by O’Really and FOX, It must be true. Katy Couric denied a chance to set the record straight when contacted regarding her brief affair with Lush during one of his 12 marriages. Who do you believe ?

Response:

>Someone certainly should be measuring how the human race (G. Bush > specifically) is damaging the earths magnetic feild..! ! ! !

Umm .. They could explain the drop in stupidity. Whereever gWb goes, things get worse because of the change of magnetics fields ? Without magnetic fields, we would all be floating around in the air. wb., reporting from Wash., DC,

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>An increase in the ferocity of hurricanes around the globe over the last 35 years may be attributable to global warming, a new >>>report states. >>>The study, which appears in the Sept. 16 issue of the journal Science, is perhaps one of the strongest scientific statements yet >>>on a connection between hurricane activity and global warming. >>>"I’m heading towards being a little less cautious," study lead author Peter J. Webster, professor at the School of Earth and >>>Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, said at a news conference Wednesday. "I think [rising] >>>sea surface temperature is a global-warming effect and I think the change in [hurricane] intensity, which is a universal thing, >>>is following sea surface temperature." >>>Webster was referring to a demonstrated increase in the sea surface temperature (SST) of about half a degree centigrade since >>>1970. Scientists have hypothesized that higher sea surface temperatures result in greater hurricane intensity. >>>– Martha >>It seems that this hypothesizing is less than objective, mostly subjective, and really just a >>baseless suggestive thought without foundation. >>Take two related factors, add ANY third, and through ratio and proportion, linkage is established. >>Never the less, the appearances of linkage now appear, in spite baseless dot connection. >>For example, from http://www.grammy.com/news/newswatch/2005/0803.aspx >>We take the following information: >>July Marks New High In P2P Use >>BigChampagne released numbers this week suggesting that the average user base on P2P networks >>continued to grow in July, with global use increasing to 9.5 million, and use in the United States >>increasing to 6.9 million. Globally, P2P use has increased 25.1 percent from the same period last >>year, and the United States has seen a 33.3 percent increase from July 2004. (8/2) >>Then, from the previous, we have: >>>Webster was referring to a demonstrated increase in the sea surface temperature (SST) >>>of about half a degree centigrade since 1970. Scientists have hypothesized that higher >>>sea surface temperatures result in greater hurricane intensity. >>So, let’s grab the calculator, and connect the dots. >>Over a 35 year period, a change of .5 degrees C has been recorded. Thus, a yield of .014 degrees C >>increase per year. >>During this one year period, there was also a global increase in P2P usage 25.1% with the United >>States being responsible for the larger portion by the reported 6.9 million, compared to the global >>figure of 9.5 million. >>Clearly, these figures shows the United States "IS" the big time *abuser* when compared to the rest >>of the world’s GLOBAL usage figure of 2.6 million for this SAME one year time period. >>Therefore, the increased pollution to support the production of the electricity REQUIRED for such a >>disproportionate usage comparison to the rest of the world,… the United States ALONE, has raised >>the global warming temperature for a one year period by an approximate factor of .01 degrees C per >>year. >>Clearly, the United States is the largest energy wasting global warming polluter, because of it’s >>disproportionate use of P2P. >>How can the world stand by and do nothing in the face of such figures. The United States ALONE, >>pollutes enough to raise the earth’s temperature .01 degrees C per year. While, the rest of the >>WORLD is only contributing .004 degrees C. > Oh, I forgot to mention,….. > They ARE accurate. > Push the buttons on your calculator. > You’ll see…… > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, > Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers > Rich, speaking of global warming… ( I can’t remember where I read > this, maybe Economics mag, or WSJ, or ??) but… in England after > crunching "their numbers", they’ve decided that the amount of > green-house gasses being emmitted by the *ground* has increased over > the years. This increase has been equal to, or slightly larger, the > amount of the "reduction" by ALL emittions reductions put in place in > England. Thus, Englands net emissions has remained the same even with > all the man-made reductions put in place.

Imagine that. There is something about change, that the human condition fights on automatic. There are some changes the human is powerless to control. It is, what it is, when it is. So, when you like it, you want to keep it. Why change it. But, when CHANGE is in the equation, the fight to stop it is immediate. Did anyone notice that air friction tends slow the earth’s rotation. It’s due to all those tall buildings in the major cities that is causing this. Trees and mountains too. It’s been all about air friction the whole time. > This might be news to some folks… the earth emits green-house gases > all on it’s own. Further, the degrading magnetic field of the earth > will probably cause an increase in volcanic activity… one decent > volcanic eruption puts more gases into the air than… well.. >

Air friction is making the days longer giving the sun more time to heat things up. It’s the slowing rotation that is causing global warming. > Someone certainly should be measuring how the human race (G. Bush > specifically) is damaging the earths magnetic feild..! ! ! !

Yeah, it’s that magma thing, that is behind that. Next we are going to have to control the magma flow of the earth. > Someone, somewhere, (I read this too…) beleives that when Mars had a > magnetic feild, it was much more like earth. Folks, we do NOT want to > lose our magnetic field..! ! ! ! !

Magma damns, and nukes to change its flow. It’s the only way. > Sorry for making a bit of fun about all the "chicken littles"… I > actually pretty much support pollution controls, but I’ve travelled a > bit and the USA is WAY cleaner than most of the world in most ways.

Damn, imagine that. > I also think that pollution controls should be stressed mostly where > they will have the biggest *impact* pollution wise. But that’s a > whole other discussion…

> Hope your summer went well Rich..! !

LOL, it just another I worked through, and missed it somehow. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

> Who do you believe ?

The experts; Storms Vary With Cycles, Experts Say By KENNETH CHANG Because hurricanes form over warm ocean water, it is easy to assume that the recent rise in their number and ferocity is because of global warming. But that is not the case, scientists say. Instead, the severity of hurricane seasons changes with cycles of temperatures of several decades in the Atlantic Ocean. The recent onslaught "is very much natural," said William M. Gray, a professor of atmospheric science at Colorado State University who issues forecasts for the hurricane season. From 1970 to 1994, the Atlantic was relatively quiet, with no more than three major hurricanes in any year and none at all in three of those years. Cooler water in the North Atlantic strengthened wind shear, which tends to tear storms apart before they turn into hurricanes. In 1995, hurricane patterns reverted to the active mode of the 1950’s and 60’s. From 1995 to 2003, 32 major hurricanes, with sustained winds of 111 miles per hour or greater, stormed across the Atlantic. It was chance, Dr. Gray said, that only three of them struck the United States at full strength. Historically, the rate has been 1 in 3. Then last year, three major hurricanes, half of the six that formed during the season, hit the United States. A fourth, Frances, weakened before striking Florida. "We were very lucky in that eight-year period, and the luck just ran out," Dr. Gray said. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/national/30cycle.html?ei=5065&en=9e…

Response:

Let’s not bring science into this. We all know scienctists are products of a liberal up bringing. An you quote from the New York Times ! The other *experts* see that this expert is a liberal planted troll and cannot be trusted,

Response:

> Let’s not bring science into this. > We all know scienctists are products > of a liberal up bringing. An you quote from > the New York Times ! The other *experts* see that this expert > is a liberal planted troll and cannot be trusted,

science?! Kill science!!!

Response:

courageously avow: > Let’s not bring science into this. > We all know scienctists are products > of a liberal up bringing. An you quote from > the New York Times ! The other *experts* see that this expert > is a liberal planted troll and cannot be trusted, >science?! Kill science!!!

Okay. But then you have to believe in divine guidance and figure that, if nothing else, God hates Jazz. Although that really doesn’t explain the French Quarter surviving. Maybe he doesn’t like the dismal football the Saints have been playing of late and this was their wake up call. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas, Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, pseudobacker, and the rest of the Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE) and, at his own request, Karl Rovershank (aka Lars from Mars) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/

Response:

>Okay. But then you have to believe in divine guidance and figure >that, if nothing else, God hates Jazz. Although that really doesn’t >explain the French Quarter surviving.

My God does not hate anything. He discouarges sinners. As to why the French Quarter survived, you need to look no further than a topilogical map. It is a high point in a hole,

Response:

Katy Couric denied a chance to set the > record straight when contacted regarding her brief affair with > Lush during one of his 12 marriages. > Who do you believe ?

eww gross you just made me gag.

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> Because hurricanes form over warm ocean water, it is easy to assume that the > recent rise in their number and ferocity is because of global warming.

And the fact that the temperature of the world’s oceans have increased, on average, by one degree Celsius over the past 50 or so years means that we have more hurricanes and that they’re bigger and stronger. Thanks to global warming.

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Maybe the earth’s gas emissions that you believe in are coming from your ass… oh wait a minute that’s your mouth…

Response:

> >Okay. But then you have to believe in divine guidance and figure >that, if nothing else, God hates Jazz. Although that really doesn’t >explain the French Quarter surviving. > My God does not hate anything. > He discouarges sinners. > As to why the French Quarter survived, > you need to look no further than a > topilogical map. It is a high point > in a hole,

You’re totally wrong. Here’s why the levees broke: God hates beignets. –E

Response:

My God likes jelly filled instead : beignets: 1. A square doughnut with no hole: "a New Orleans coffeehouse selling beignets, an insidious Louisianian cousin of the doughnut that exists to get powdered sugar on your face" Los Angeles Times. 2. A fritter.

Response:

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In: Travel England

Backpack or briefcase NYC :-(

Question:

As an Ex- New Yorker (Manhatten w/ family still there) living in the S. CA Car Culture, I see this mostly as a Grand Central or Penn Station main concourse inevitability. Rush hour, maybe Christmas shopping crowds….I don’t think any other city has as real or big a problem to face, but I think we all know that London and Madrid were Al Queda dress rehearsals for NYC. mvm Suicide Bombings Bring Urgency to Police in U.S. By SARAH KERSHAW Published: July 25, 2005 SEATTLE, July 22 – Inside a former Starbucks warehouse, this city’s bomb squad headquarters, the police chief and 15 captains and sergeants – accompanied by a robot that can extract explosives from packages and pin down a suspect – huddled the other day to tackle a topic suddenly urgent to the police across the nation: suicide bombers. "Now it’s really time," the chief, Gil Kerlikowske, told his commanders. "It almost seems to be a question of when in this country, not a question of if, after London." Across the country, police departments large and small are preparing for a possibility once thought improbable and now feared to be inevitable. On Thursday, the day of four attempted explosions in the London subways, the New York City police began randomly searching bags and backpacks at subway stations and other travel hubs. In Miami, the police chief returned recently from a conference in England and Scotland that included a long session on suicide bombers. Several officers with the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department returned last Thursday after spending a week with the British authorities studying terrorism responses, department officials there said. A growing number of police departments, including ones in Seattle; Boston; Los Angeles; Washington; Suffolk County, N.Y.; and Sterling Heights, Mich., a small city north of Detroit, are also turning for guidance to the place many police officials consider the pinnacle of terrorism training. They are sending groups of officers to Israel and bringing Israeli officers to the United States to train the police on the harrowing science of suicide bomber intelligence gathering and apprehension. Several American police officials said advice from the Israelis had included looking out for suicide bomber "handlers," who scout bus stations or other crowded areas for deadly attacks. And although the police are typically told to aim for the chest when shooting because it is the largest target, the Israelis are teaching officers to aim for a suspect’s head so as not to detonate any explosives that might be strapped to his torso. But the growing relationship between Israeli and United States law enforcement, expanding now after the London bombings, has prompted criticism among some Muslim groups, who say they fear that American police officers will engage in religious or ethnic profiling. Some officials talk about receiving reports from the public about what the police refer to as "M.E.W.C.’s" – Middle Eastern with a camera – perhaps taking pictures of a bridge, a hydropower plant or a reservoir. "Israel’s antiterror tactics are largely based on profiling, whether it’s on airlines or at checkpoints," said Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, based in Washington. "And they’ve produced tremendous resentment and hostility in the Palestinian population through humiliating tactics and through abuses on a daily basis. And I don’t think that’s something we want to replicate." But Chief Kerlikowske said that the focus of the work with Israelis – an Israeli police general based at the Israeli Embassy in Washington is expected to come here for training next month – was on technical skills, and that the police were focusing on the behavior of potential bombers, not on race or religion. "None of the discussions I’ve heard have to do with profiling," Chief Kerlikowske said. In the last week, officials in Seattle – not far from where an Algerian man, Ahmed Ressam, was arrested in 1999 trying to enter the country with explosives to be used at the Los Angeles airport during the millennium celebration – have proposed ways to train officers with a three-part "lesson plan" for detecting and stopping suicide bombers. Some police officials, however, acknowledge that many of the roughly 18,000 American police departments and federal law enforcement agencies lack access to centralized training for response to such attacks and say that the biggest weakness lies in intelligence gathering on extremists. The National Bomb Squad Commanders Advisory Board, which works with more than 450 bomb squad units, is drafting the first national protocol for "suicide bomber response," to be distributed to all the units in September, said Sgt. Jim Hansen of the Seattle Police Department’s arson bomb squad and a member of the organization’s board. Inside the warehouse here, the Seattle police officials talked about how they would get the word out to their roughly 1,250 officers – whether through a video or special training – to help them see signs of a potential attack: gunpowder, a suspicious backpack, a suspect sweating profusely. They spoke about the "nine steps" a suicide bomber takes, but were reluctant to share the details with a reporter for fear of tipping off would-be bombers, they said. Many police and federal officials have gone to Israel through a program organized by the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, a nonprofit group in Washington that promotes close ties between the United States and the Israeli military and the police. Marsha Halteman, director of corporate and community programs for the institute, said that it got its money from private donors and that it had been sponsoring such trips for American officers since 2002. Since the London bombings of July 7, Ms. Halteman said, interest in cooperation between the countries’ police agencies has increased considerably. The institute pays the cost of the trips to Israel, roughly $6,500 for each state or local officer; it does not pay for federal officers’ expenses, Ms. Halteman said. Since 2002, the institute has sent dozens of American law enforcement officials to Israel and sponsored several conferences here with Israeli security experts. An itinerary for a recent institute-sponsored trip to Israel listed among the lessons "The Mind-Set of the Suicide Bomber," "Security Technology" and "Enlisting the Public in the Fight Against Terrorism." Barnett Jones, chief of the Sterling, Mich., Police Department, with 259 employees, was one of more than a dozen officials who went to Israel for training in April. "One would say it is the front line," Chief Barnett said of Israel. "We’re in a global war." Asked whether he had specific concerns because of the large Arab and Muslim population in the Detroit area, he responded delicately, saying: "The reality is we have a large population in our community that immediately become suspect, whether that is right or wrong, because of the global war. For me to sit here and say, ‘I’m not concerned’ would be wrong, but for me to sit here and say, ‘Yes I’m concerned’ would also be wrong." The New York City Police Department has worked with the Israelis since soon after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and has permanently stationed a Hebrew-speaking detective in Israel, who returns to the city often to train other officers. Since the July 7 London bombings, the department, which has an annual budget of $2 billion, has spent an additional $2 million a week, primarily on mass transit security, said Paul J. Browne, the deputy commissioner for public information. He said he did not expect that the new policy of searching backpacks and packages would add significantly to the cost. Chief Kerlikowske of the Seattle police, which pays its own way for trips to Israel, said his department, with an annual budget of $182 million, would spend up to $30,000 for additional training on suicide bomber response. Some expensive items like the robot and a portable X-ray machine using digital film have been paid for with money from the Department of Homeland Security. The X-ray machine was used last month when a man upset about his case entered the federal courthouse in Seattle with a backpack strapped to his chest and a grenade in his hand. Officers shot him in the head and killed him; the X-ray machine was used to examine his backpack, which turned out to have only a cutting board inside. The grenade was determined to be inactive. Even as more police departments seek suicide-bomber training, several officials said the police in the United States had challenges that did not exist in other countries. "Here we don’t have a centralized department, and the biggest obstacle is sharing information, working at local, state and then the overlay with the feds," Chief John F. Timoney of Miami said. "If you were George Bush, and you went to Harvard and asked them to design a policing scheme, the last one they would dream up is the American policing scheme; it’s completely dysfunctional. We’ve got to do a much better job on intelligence." Still, most agree there is little time to waste. "I think now suddenly, what we are seeing is that it’s really happening," said Brig. Gen. Simon Perry of the Israel National Police, now based at the Israeli Embassy in Washington and one of several Israeli security experts traveling around the nation to conduct training sessions for American law enforcement. "I think for terrorist attacks, you need two things: you need a capability, and you need a motivation," he said. "The capability is here, and the question now is motivation."

Response:

Alternatively, maybe no backpack or bag…When snow falls, heavy coats hide whatever could be strapped to them…-or- it could be in the lining of the coat itself with nothing on the terrorist(s). The massive explosion amplified by the tunnel in London was thought to have been caused by a mere 10lb of high explosive. Given increased security, I’d look for this come the cold… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > As an Ex- New Yorker (Manhatten w/ family still there) living in the S. > CA Car Culture, I see this mostly as a Grand Central or Penn Station main > concourse inevitability. Rush hour, maybe Christmas shopping crowds….I > don’t think any other city has as real or big a problem to face, but I > think we > all know that London and Madrid were Al Queda dress rehearsals for NYC. mvm > Suicide Bombings Bring Urgency to Police in U.S. > By SARAH KERSHAW > Published: July 25, 2005 > SEATTLE, July 22 – Inside a former Starbucks warehouse, this city’s bomb > squad headquarters, the police chief and 15 captains and sergeants – > accompanied by a robot that can extract explosives from packages and pin > down a suspect – huddled the other day to tackle a topic suddenly urgent > to the police across the nation: suicide bombers. > "Now it’s really time," the chief, Gil Kerlikowske, told his commanders. > "It almost seems to be a question of when in this country, not a > question of if, after London." > Across the country, police departments large and small are preparing for > a possibility once thought improbable and now feared to be inevitable. > On Thursday, the day of four attempted explosions in the London subways, > the New York City police began randomly searching bags and backpacks at > subway stations and other travel hubs. > In Miami, the police chief returned recently from a conference in > England and Scotland that included a long session on suicide bombers. > Several officers with the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department > returned last Thursday after spending a week with the British > authorities studying terrorism responses, department officials there said. > A growing number of police departments, including ones in Seattle; > Boston; Los Angeles; Washington; Suffolk County, N.Y.; and Sterling > Heights, Mich., a small city north of Detroit, are also turning for > guidance to the place many police officials consider the pinnacle of > terrorism training. They are sending groups of officers to Israel and > bringing Israeli officers to the United States to train the police on > the harrowing science of suicide bomber intelligence gathering and > apprehension. > Several American police officials said advice from the Israelis had > included looking out for suicide bomber "handlers," who scout bus > stations or other crowded areas for deadly attacks. And although the > police are typically told to aim for the chest when shooting because it > is the largest target, the Israelis are teaching officers to aim for a > suspect’s head so as not to detonate any explosives that might be > strapped to his torso. > But the growing relationship between Israeli and United States law > enforcement, expanding now after the London bombings, has prompted > criticism among some Muslim groups, who say they fear that American > police officers will engage in religious or ethnic profiling. > Some officials talk about receiving reports from the public about what > the police refer to as "M.E.W.C.’s" – Middle Eastern with a camera – > perhaps taking pictures of a bridge, a hydropower plant or a reservoir. > "Israel’s antiterror tactics are largely based on profiling, whether > it’s on airlines or at checkpoints," said Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman > for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, based in Washington. "And > they’ve produced tremendous resentment and hostility in the Palestinian > population through humiliating tactics and through abuses on a daily > basis. And I don’t think that’s something we want to replicate." > But Chief Kerlikowske said that the focus of the work with Israelis – an > Israeli police general based at the Israeli Embassy in Washington is > expected to come here for training next month – was on technical skills, > and that the police were focusing on the behavior of potential bombers, > not on race or religion. > "None of the discussions I’ve heard have to do with profiling," Chief > Kerlikowske said. > In the last week, officials in Seattle – not far from where an Algerian > man, Ahmed Ressam, was arrested in 1999 trying to enter the country with > explosives to be used at the Los Angeles airport during the millennium > celebration – have proposed ways to train officers with a three-part > "lesson plan" for detecting and stopping suicide bombers. Some police > officials, however, acknowledge that many of the roughly 18,000 American > police departments and federal law enforcement agencies lack access to > centralized training for response to such attacks and say that the > biggest weakness lies in intelligence gathering on extremists. > The National Bomb Squad Commanders Advisory Board, which works with more > than 450 bomb squad units, is drafting the first national protocol for > "suicide bomber response," to be distributed to all the units in > September, said Sgt. Jim Hansen of the Seattle Police Department’s arson > bomb squad and a member of the organization’s board. > Inside the warehouse here, the Seattle police officials talked about how > they would get the word out to their roughly 1,250 officers – whether > through a video or special training – to help them see signs of a > potential attack: gunpowder, a suspicious backpack, a suspect sweating > profusely. They spoke about the "nine steps" a suicide bomber takes, but > were reluctant to share the details with a reporter for fear of tipping > off would-be bombers, they said. > Many police and federal officials have gone to Israel through a program > organized by the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, a > nonprofit group in Washington that promotes close ties between the > United States and the Israeli military and the police. Marsha Halteman, > director of corporate and community programs for the institute, said > that it got its money from private donors and that it had been > sponsoring such trips for American officers since 2002. > Since the London bombings of July 7, Ms. Halteman said, interest in > cooperation between the countries’ police agencies has increased > considerably. The institute pays the cost of the trips to Israel, > roughly $6,500 for each state or local officer; it does not pay for > federal officers’ expenses, Ms. Halteman said. Since 2002, the institute > has sent dozens of American law enforcement officials to Israel and > sponsored several conferences here with Israeli security experts. An > itinerary for a recent institute-sponsored trip to Israel listed among > the lessons "The Mind-Set of the Suicide Bomber," "Security Technology" > and "Enlisting the Public in the Fight Against Terrorism." > Barnett Jones, chief of the Sterling, Mich., Police Department, with 259 > employees, was one of more than a dozen officials who went to Israel for > training in April. > "One would say it is the front line," Chief Barnett said of Israel. > "We’re in a global war." > Asked whether he had specific concerns because of the large Arab and > Muslim population in the Detroit area, he responded delicately, saying: > "The reality is we have a large population in our community that > immediately become suspect, whether that is right or wrong, because of > the global war. For me to sit here and say, ‘I’m not concerned’ would be > wrong, but for me to sit here and say, ‘Yes I’m concerned’ would also be > wrong." > The New York City Police Department has worked with the Israelis since > soon after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and has permanently stationed > a Hebrew-speaking detective in Israel, who returns to the city often to > train other officers. Since the July 7 London bombings, the department, > which has an annual budget of $2 billion, has spent an additional $2 > million a week, primarily on mass transit security, said Paul J. Browne, > the deputy commissioner for public information. He said he did not > expect that the new policy of searching backpacks and packages would add > significantly to the cost. > Chief Kerlikowske of the Seattle police, which pays its own way for > trips to Israel, said his department, with an annual budget of $182 > million, would spend up to $30,000 for additional training on suicide > bomber response. Some expensive items like the robot and a portable > X-ray machine using digital film have been paid for with money from the > Department of Homeland Security. > The X-ray machine was used last month when a man upset about his case > entered the federal courthouse in Seattle with a backpack strapped to > his chest and a grenade in his hand. Officers shot him in the head and > killed him; the X-ray machine was used to examine his backpack, which > turned out to have only a cutting board inside. The grenade was > determined to be inactive. > Even as more police departments seek suicide-bomber training, several > officials said the police in the United States had challenges that did > not exist in other countries. > "Here we don’t have a centralized department, and the biggest obstacle > is sharing information, working at local, state and then the overlay > with the feds," Chief John F. Timoney of Miami said. "If you were George > Bush, and you went to Harvard and asked them to design a policing > scheme, the last one they would dream up is the American policing

Response:

If you chickenshit chickenhawk law enforcement ass-suckers had any *real* faith in America’s supposed "freedoms" (now "Patriot Act" flushed), these posts would *already* have become a thread. Innocent men in a "free" country, like me, have no concern whatsoever in the least about drawing Govt. flies, because I’m wearing the ONLY repellent that still works–for the time being. You pussies would’ve been in —or trying to give head to— the National Guard at Kent State. Your frightened silence w/out *the* major ASSHOLES LV, etc. typing to cover for you is p-r-e-c-i-o-u-s. Half of you have been so terrorized by my ribald humor at your expense, you think I might just *be* a terrorist- Your paranoid cowardice pulled your little wings and left you buzzing around in circles a LONG time ago. Eat your tiny hearts out and choke on the glass, bitches. mvm > As an Ex- New Yorker (Manhatten w/ family still there) living in the S. CA Car Culture, I see this mostly as a Grand Central or Penn > Station main concourse inevitability. Rush hour, maybe Christmas shopping crowds….I don’t think any other city has as real or big a problem > to face, but I think we all know that London and Madrid were Al Queda dress rehearsals for NYC. > Alternatively, maybe no backpack or bag… > When snow falls, heavy coats hide whatever could be strapped to

them…-or- it could be in the lining of the coat itself with nothing on the terrorist(s). > The massive explosion amplified by the tunnel in London was thought to

have been caused by a mere 10lb of high explosive. Given increased security, I’d – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> look for this come the cold… > Suicide Bombings Bring Urgency to Police in U.S. > By SARAH KERSHAW > Published: July 25, 2005 > SEATTLE, July 22 – Inside a former Starbucks warehouse, this city’s > bomb squad headquarters, the police chief and 15 captains and > sergeants – accompanied by a robot that can extract explosives from > packages and pin down a suspect – huddled the other day to tackle a > topic suddenly urgent to the police across the nation: suicide bombers. > "Now it’s really time," the chief, Gil Kerlikowske, told his > commanders. "It almost seems to be a question of when in this country, > not a question of if, after London." > Across the country, police departments large and small are preparing > for a possibility once thought improbable and now feared to be > inevitable. On Thursday, the day of four attempted explosions in the > London subways, the New York City police began randomly searching bags > and backpacks at subway stations and other travel hubs. > In Miami, the police chief returned recently from a conference in > England and Scotland that included a long session on suicide bombers. > Several officers with the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department > returned last Thursday after spending a week with the British > authorities studying terrorism responses, department officials there > said. > A growing number of police departments, including ones in Seattle; > Boston; Los Angeles; Washington; Suffolk County, N.Y.; and Sterling > Heights, Mich., a small city north of Detroit, are also turning for > guidance to the place many police officials consider the pinnacle of > terrorism training. They are sending groups of officers to Israel and > bringing Israeli officers to the United States to train the police on > the harrowing science of suicide bomber intelligence gathering and > apprehension. > Several American police officials said advice from the Israelis had > included looking out for suicide bomber "handlers," who scout bus > stations or other crowded areas for deadly attacks. And although the > police are typically told to aim for the chest when shooting because > it is the largest target, the Israelis are teaching officers to aim > for a suspect’s head so as not to detonate any explosives that might > be strapped to his torso. > But the growing relationship between Israeli and United States law > enforcement, expanding now after the London bombings, has prompted > criticism among some Muslim groups, who say they fear that American > police officers will engage in religious or ethnic profiling. > Some officials talk about receiving reports from the public about what > the police refer to as "M.E.W.C.’s" – Middle Eastern with a camera – > perhaps taking pictures of a bridge, a hydropower plant or a reservoir. > "Israel’s antiterror tactics are largely based on profiling, whether > it’s on airlines or at checkpoints," said Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman > for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, based in Washington. > "And they’ve produced tremendous resentment and hostility in the > Palestinian population through humiliating tactics and through abuses > on a daily basis. And I don’t think that’s something we want to > replicate." > But Chief Kerlikowske said that the focus of the work with Israelis – > an Israeli police general based at the Israeli Embassy in Washington > is expected to come here for training next month – was on technical > skills, and that the police were focusing on the behavior of potential > bombers, not on race or religion. > "None of the discussions I’ve heard have to do with profiling," Chief > Kerlikowske said. > In the last week, officials in Seattle – not far from where an > Algerian man, Ahmed Ressam, was arrested in 1999 trying to enter the > country with explosives to be used at the Los Angeles airport during > the millennium celebration – have proposed ways to train officers with > a three-part "lesson plan" for detecting and stopping suicide bombers. > Some police officials, however, acknowledge that many of the roughly > 18,000 American police departments and federal law enforcement > agencies lack access to centralized training for response to such > attacks and say that the biggest weakness lies in intelligence > gathering on extremists. > The National Bomb Squad Commanders Advisory Board, which works with > more than 450 bomb squad units, is drafting the first national > protocol for "suicide bomber response," to be distributed to all the > units in September, said Sgt. Jim Hansen of the Seattle Police > Department’s arson bomb squad and a member of the organization’s board. > Inside the warehouse here, the Seattle police officials talked about > how they would get the word out to their roughly 1,250 officers – > whether through a video or special training – to help them see signs > of a potential attack: gunpowder, a suspicious backpack, a suspect > sweating profusely. They spoke about the "nine steps" a suicide bomber > takes, but were reluctant to share the details with a reporter for > fear of tipping off would-be bombers, they said. > Many police and federal officials have gone to Israel through a > program organized by the Jewish Institute for National Security > Affairs, a nonprofit group in Washington that promotes close ties > between the United States and the Israeli military and the police. > Marsha Halteman, director of corporate and community programs for the > institute, said that it got its money from private donors and that it > had been sponsoring such trips for American officers since 2002. > Since the London bombings of July 7, Ms. Halteman said, interest in > cooperation between the countries’ police agencies has increased > considerably. The institute pays the cost of the trips to Israel, > roughly $6,500 for each state or local officer; it does not pay for > federal officers’ expenses, Ms. Halteman said. Since 2002, the > institute has sent dozens of American law enforcement officials to > Israel and sponsored several conferences here with Israeli security > experts. An itinerary for a recent institute-sponsored trip to Israel > listed among the lessons "The Mind-Set of the Suicide Bomber," > "Security Technology" and "Enlisting the Public in the Fight Against > Terrorism." > Barnett Jones, chief of the Sterling, Mich., Police Department, with > 259 employees, was one of more than a dozen officials who went to > Israel for training in April. > "One would say it is the front line," Chief Barnett said of Israel. > "We’re in a global war." > Asked whether he had specific concerns because of the large Arab and > Muslim population in the Detroit area, he responded delicately, > saying: "The reality is we have a large population in our community > that immediately become suspect, whether that is right or wrong, > because of the global war. For me to sit here and say, ‘I’m not > concerned’ would be wrong, but for me to sit here and say, ‘Yes I’m > concerned’ would also be wrong." > The New York City Police Department has worked with the Israelis since > soon after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and has permanently > stationed a Hebrew-speaking detective in Israel, who returns to the > city often to train other officers. Since the July 7 London bombings, > the department, which has an annual budget of $2 billion, has spent an > additional $2 million a week, primarily on mass transit security, said > Paul J. Browne, the deputy commissioner for public information. He > said he did not expect that the new policy of searching backpacks and > packages would add significantly to the cost. > Chief Kerlikowske of the Seattle police, which pays its own way for > trips to Israel, said his department, with an annual budget of $182 > million, would spend up to $30,000 for additional training on suicide > bomber response. Some expensive items like the robot and a portable > X-ray machine using digital

Response:

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In: Travel Package England

The Runaway Bride and Double Standards

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>> As of Tuesday morning, bride-to-be Jennifer Carol Wilbanks hadn’t >>>> publicly apologized for temporarily turning her fiance into the >>>> next Scott Peterson. >>> Her boyfriend is a very lucky man. She could have married him first >>> and then gone to Vegas with his credit cards. That’s the usual >>> pattern. >>> Now she can service the jailhouse lesbians along with the female >>> ’soldier’ who disgraced her country by torturing Iraqi civilians. >> That was offical policy. Been proven to be documented all the way to >> the top. So, in reality, England was simply being a good obedient >> woman and doing what she was told. The disgrace to our country is >> because of the President who made it all happen. >> Hal > That may be the position that the judge has taken in refusing the > guilty plea. > What I want to know is why the stupid son of bitch wants to still marry > her. Me I would be as far from her as possible.

Gee are we switching back from Iraq to the original US thread?

Response:

> Rape is a consequence of womens control of sexual and reproductive > spheres.

Rape is a consequence of men not controlling themselves, dear. You know, taking personal responsibility over their own weiners? Disarm Rapists!

Response:

> "Women always make men out to be the abuser,"

er, so who are the abusers then? women? ant

Response:

>> "Women always make men out to be the abuser," > er, so who are the abusers then? women?

Half of the time, yes. But, the ads about this, always portray the man as the abuiser and the woman as victim. Erin PIzzey, the first person to write a book on domestic violence, " Scream Softly Or The Neighbours Will Hear ", and the founder of the first women’s shelter in the UK, by 1982 was reporting that that the aggressor in domestic violence was half of the time, the woman. For this, she got death treats… from Feminists. Gelles and Straus’ research backs up her work, and this can be easily verified in the pages of the following works: Not Guilty, The Case In Defense Of Men, by David Thomas. Heterophobia, Sexual Harrassment and The Future Of Feminism, by Daphne Patai. Abused Men; The Hidden Side Of Domestic Violence, by Philip W. Cook. From Insult To Injury, Rethinking Our Responses To Intimate Abuse, by Linda G. Mills. Some fact based learning is better than ignorant slogans… Andre — " I’m a man… But, I can change… If I have to… I guess. " The Man Prayer, Red Green.

Response:

>> "Women always make men out to be the abuser," > er, so who are the abusers then? women? > Half of the time, yes. But, the ads about this, always portray > the man as the abuiser and the woman as victim.

An "Abuiser"? Is that a semi-Freudian slip? Did you really mean "A-bruiser"? As time and my opportunities to see or hear of abuse have become more frequent, I’ve slipped into a persaonal observation-pit, that abuse in many cases is not unlike dancing, requiring two to tango, All too often, whether the abuser is the husband or the wife (and who knows what actual frequency really is, with abuse by husbands likely more often publicized?), ongoing "transactions" are sadly mutual with a high percentage of the abused being of mind set and predisposition that not only invites, but may "need" abuse on a continuing basis. There’s even some evidence, albeit anecdotal, that personalities likely to be abused actually seek out potential abusers and may act to stimulate abuse. The classic continued return of battered wives to abusive husbands is not anecdotal, the line between needing to be sheltered/cared for and needing to be subjugated and violated being apparently thiiner and hazier than psychologists are want to admit. There’s no excuse, societal or personal, for beating on a spouse or live-in, but to date, society has not done a very good job in comprehending the complexity of the problem (just as for generations we closed our eyes and ears to folks, mostly women addicted to over the counter opiates, refused to admit that home-bound housewives could be alcoholics, and today deal poorly with apparently "normal" folks addicted to prescription drugs (too often prescribed by doctors to folks who clamor for relief, the best way to stop the phone calls being to authorize a new bottle of pills). TMO

Response:

> Women fought for suffrage

This equality we have now is a consequence of industrialization. It benefits industry by depressing wages and increasing consumption. Noisy protests by a few activists by themselves won’t make any difference. Women were _given_ equal rights.

Response:

> I commanded Americans in combat, with a Geneva Convention card on > each soldier, and we never violated any of the conventions. And > guess what? Specialist England did not violate any international > treaty or army regulation. She (along with others) were given orders > to do what they did. The fun and games were embarrassing, and > stupid, and the pics even more so, but not violations of any > regulations or treaty. Moreover the subjects of ridicule do not fall > under the Geneva Conventions. So she had to obey a lawful order, > because it was lawful, no matter what you think. If they are being > court-martialed for anything it is for stupidity.

Assuming that the prisoners came under the 3rd convention (12 August 1949), England and the others would have committed acts in violation of articles 13,14 and 17. It’s worrying that you commanded troops in combat and didn’t know this. — Simon Elliott http://www.ctsn.co.uk

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I commanded Americans in combat, with a Geneva Convention card on > each soldier, and we never violated any of the conventions. And > guess what? Specialist England did not violate any international > treaty or army regulation. She (along with others) were given orders > to do what they did. The fun and games were embarrassing, and > stupid, and the pics even more so, but not violations of any > regulations or treaty. Moreover the subjects of ridicule do not fall > under the Geneva Conventions. So she had to obey a lawful order, > because it was lawful, no matter what you think. If they are being > court-martialed for anything it is for stupidity. > Assuming that the prisoners came under the 3rd convention (12 August > 1949), England and the others would have committed acts in violation of > articles 13,14 and 17. It’s worrying that you commanded troops in > combat and didn’t know this.

….I’ll note that long ago that it was, back when 1949 was fresher in memory, Billzz was not in my OCS class in which we were breifly lectured that acts of the sort apparently committed by the AbuGhraib(?) guards violated all sorts of rules and standards (and in doing so, made the same sort of treatment for US prisoners easier for the world to swallow when it occurred). Back between 1942 and 1945, extremely large numbers of German and Italian PoWs were confined in camps in the US under conditions in which escape would have been fairly easy, treatment was something short of harsh except in the case of those of strong ideological convictions, and large numbers of the prisoners actually worked in the civilian economies outside of the camps. Several factors contributed to the low escape rate and amzingly few "problems" in those camps. First, of course, escape is unattractive when distances are great no realistic ability to get "home" exists. Secondly, many of the PoWs became satisfactorily convinced that the Allies were likely to win. The third factor was a consistent (and enforced in the case of violatoers) policy of proper treatment I’m not sure what part of Billzz’s officer training syllabus discussing treatment of prisoners he missed, most of it, it seems. He certainly was absent for the part during which stress was placed on observing the proprieties common to the civilized and avoiding the personal and specific humiliation of others, whether it be your own troops or prisoners. He sure seems to have been making a head call when the class learned that an officer or NCO providing that sort of "leadership" to the troops is undeserving of command or any responsibility grander than Captain of the Head or Permanent Mess Cook. I’m not sure how I, if seated on a court martial – having sat on them before – would judge the diminutive (and apparently playing with less than a full deck) Ms. England or her sergeant/paramour – who superficially sounds a right bastard – but I would sure wonder where the Hell the the 1SGT and LT were, when this pair required substantially more command attention than they appear to have received. Having once experienced a Board of Inquiry (fortunately, blamelessly) across a green felt table cover, I’ve had that part of the syllabus which covers personal responsibility and accountability for the actions of those one commands hammered home. TMO TMO

Response:

> America is not a collection of puppets. Each and every individual is > responsible for his own actions. ‘I was merely obeying orders’ was not > accepted as an excuse from German nazis and must not be accepted as an > excuse from American nazis.

aGREED, but we are talking about women as children of no repsonsibility nor accountability – hence they had to walk the streets to get the easy road to rights rather than die alongside men as equals in defending America from nature AND nurture from equals. Rape is a consequence of womens control of sexual and reproductive spheres.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Too many American men have bought into the socialist agenda of >feminism. Females are not men no matter how much they attempt >to emulate us. They cannot take care of themselves and men cannot >afford to allow a police state to develop to meet female demands >for security. >The solution? Treat the woman fairly but firmly. If she balks and >runs let her go. She’s a lost cause. Never give into a female. >Find one that knows her place. > Have you had any success in finding a female that "knows her place"?

Avoid Weaternized women and look for women who have a mother and a grandmother who stayed at home taking care of the husband and kids while the father was out working. If I did it, so can any man. It’s amazing what men put up with today and I’m just happy I don’t have to come home and argue who’s turn it is to do the dishes or change the baby’s diaper. Regards…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>As of Tuesday morning, bride-to-be Jennifer Carol Wilbanks hadn’t >>>publicly apologized for temporarily turning her fiance into the next >>>Scott Peterson. >>Her boyfriend is a very lucky man. She could have married him first >>and then gone to Vegas with his credit cards. That’s the usual >>pattern. >>Now she can service the jailhouse lesbians along with the female >>’soldier’ who disgraced her country by torturing Iraqi civilians. >That was offical policy. Been proven to be documented all the way to >the top. So, in reality, England was simply being a good obedient >woman and doing what she was told. The disgrace to our country is >because of the President who made it all happen. > America is not a collection of puppets. Each and every individual is > responsible for his own actions. ‘I was merely obeying orders’ was not > accepted as an excuse from German nazis and must not be accepted as an > excuse from American nazis.

Oh, American n*zis, eh? You some kind of expert on this subject? Don’t bother answering. I commanded Americans in combat, with a Geneva Convention card on each soldier, and we never violated any of the conventions. And guess what? Specialist England did not violate any international treaty or army regulation. She (along with others) were given orders to do what they did. The fun and games were embarrassing, and stupid, and the pics even more so, but not violations of any regulations or treaty. Moreover the subjects of ridicule do not fall under the Geneva Conventions. So she had to obey a lawful order, because it was lawful, no matter what *you* think. If they are being court-martialed for anything it is for stupidity. As an aside, my eldest son went to the Valley Forge Military Academy, and their hazing was worse. And my youngest went to Marine boot camp, and "The Crucible" is worse. And I went to OCS (see the film "An Officer and a Gentleman) and it was far, far worse. In the 1950s there was a made for TV movie showing USAF pilots being tortured by some enemy. At the end a door opens and an immaculately dressed USAF colonel comes in. It wasn’t real. It was a depiction of Stead AFB where they put pilots through an escape and evasion course, and when captured they are tortured. As one of the filmers of the actual place told me, "It’s amazing how berserk some people go when they are hit on the penus with a broomstick." We treat our own people worse than the pics I saw. But nothing compared to the real Germans and North Koreans, and Japanese and North Vietnamese and what they did. I have an eyewitness statement from a flight surgeon, captured by the VC, that is so graphic it could never be in public print. In every war, from Europe, to Korea, to Vietnam, to Iraq, Americans have never had the protection of the Geneva Convention. The Germans, the Japanese, the Vietnamese, the Iraqui, for all their vaunted civilizations, have always tortured Americans. In Vietnam, in the Mekong Delta, we expected to be tortured and killed, (and our USAF FAC was) and never expected the so-called rights of the Geneva Convention, even though we always treated our prisoners within those rights. I am sure that the enemy took this as a sign of weakness. But, what the hell. You do not know shit from Shinola. I checked into rec.travel.air to ask a question (which I have now forgotten) and see an anti-american "hit-piece." from where? A radical communist? A loyal Saddam supporter? I know. Someone for *peace.* The Anchor Atlas of World History should show anyone that there is no such thing as the state of peace. There is only conflict, deserved or not, that’s what we got. Whenever anyone says they are *for peace* it means they are for the other side. Well, this is so off-topic to rec.travel.air that I plonk myself, and unsubscribe.

Response:

> Women fought for suffrage, now they fight for equality.

Women "fought" for nothing, merely marched down a few streets to attain what men earned doing hard yakka. And even now feminists volunteering to defend their equal perks are nowhere to be seen.

Response:

>> Have you had any success in finding a female that "knows her place"? >Yes, most womin work part time whilst looking after the kids. >Most women therefore "know their place" UNLESS of course we place >feminists as non sexists in the front line defending freedom and >democracry alongside men as equal as equal can be!

Women fought for suffrage, now they fight for equality. Let them have it then. Give them what they want, and see how long they like it before they come crawling back on their hands and knees. Lg

Response:

> Have you had any success in finding a female that "knows her place"?

Yes, most womin work part time whilst looking after the kids. Most women therefore "know their place" UNLESS of course we place feminists as non sexists in the front line defending freedom and democracry alongside men as equal as equal can be!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Too many American men have bought into the socialist agenda of > >feminism. Females are not men no matter how much they attempt > >to emulate us. They cannot take care of themselves and men cannot > >afford to allow a police state to develop to meet female demands > >for security. > >The solution? Treat the woman fairly but firmly. If she balks and > >runs let her go. She’s a lost cause. Never give into a female. > >Find one that knows her place. > Have you had any success in finding a female that "knows her place"? >Many good Christian females know their place "Glickman"

On their knees, I presume? Or would just bending over qualify?

Response:

>Too many American men have bought into the socialist agenda of >feminism. Females are not men no matter how much they attempt >to emulate us. They cannot take care of themselves and men cannot >afford to allow a police state to develop to meet female demands >for security. >The solution? Treat the woman fairly but firmly. If she balks and >runs let her go. She’s a lost cause. Never give into a female. >Find one that knows her place. > Have you had any success in finding a female that "knows her place"?

Many good Christian females know their place "Glickman"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> As of Tuesday morning, bride-to-be Jennifer Carol Wilbanks hadn’t >>> publicly apologized for temporarily turning her fiance into the next >>> Scott Peterson. >> Her boyfriend is a very lucky man. She could have married him first >> and then gone to Vegas with his credit cards. That’s the usual >> pattern. >> Now she can service the jailhouse lesbians along with the female >> ’soldier’ who disgraced her country by torturing Iraqi civilians. > That was offical policy. Been proven to be documented all the way to > the top. So, in reality, England was simply being a good obedient > woman and doing what she was told. The disgrace to our country is > because of the President who made it all happen. > Hal > That may be the position that the judge has taken in refusing the guilty > plea.

What I want to know is why the stupid son of bitch wants to still marry her. Me I would be as far from her as possible. — He who establishes a tyranny and does not kill Brutus, and he who establishes a democratic regime and does not kill the sons of Brutus, will not last long. Niccolo Machiavelli

Response:

Have you had any success in finding a female that "knows her place"?

Response:

>So, in reality, England was simply being a good obedient >woman and doing what she was told.

Following orders was thrown out as a defence in 1946 in Nuremberg. It is completely unacceptable as justification.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>As of Tuesday morning, bride-to-be Jennifer Carol Wilbanks hadn’t >>publicly apologized for temporarily turning her fiance into the next >>Scott Peterson. >Her boyfriend is a very lucky man. She could have married him first >and then gone to Vegas with his credit cards. That’s the usual >pattern. >Now she can service the jailhouse lesbians along with the female >’soldier’ who disgraced her country by torturing Iraqi civilians. > That was offical policy. Been proven to be documented all the way to > the top. So, in reality, England was simply being a good obedient > woman and doing what she was told. The disgrace to our country is > because of the President who made it all happen. > Hal

That may be the position that the judge has taken in refusing the guilty plea.

Response:

COMMENTARY Case of the runaway bride has some men hopping mad By MARK SCHWED Cox News Service WEST PALM BEACH, FLA. – Anger. Disgust. Outrage. Men, who usually couldn’t care less about weddings, have strong feelings about Georgia’s runaway bride. As of Tuesday morning, bride-to-be Jennifer Carol Wilbanks hadn’t publicly apologized for temporarily turning her fiance into the next Scott Peterson. The fiance, John Mason, once a suspect who had to take a lie-detector test to prove he hadn’t chucked her into the Chattahoochee River, said he was "happy" she was alive and pledged to marry her still. But days before, "Oh man, I was mad," he told Sean Hannity, Fox-TV’s political pit bull, who turned all sensitive and mushy for his scoop interview, conducted

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In: Travel England

Ships of the Past

Question:

I wonder if anyone could advise me as to where we could go to learn about how the old sailors used sextons and compass and charts to navigate. It would be a wonderful lecture to have on cruise ships and we have often mentioned it on the comment cards that are passed out at the end of a cruise. Is there a cruise ship that makes such information available to the passengers? Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Sandy

Response:

Uh, that would be sextants, not sextons. > I wonder if anyone could advise me as to where we could go to learn about > how the old sailors used sextons and compass and charts to navigate. It > would be a wonderful lecture to have on cruise ships and we have often > mentioned it on the comment cards that are passed out at the end of a > cruise. > Is there a cruise ship that makes such information available to the > passengers? Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Sandy

Katherine Becker "As god is my witness I thought turkeys could fly" NEVER SEND A FERRET TO DO A WEASEL’s JOB –WKRP

Response:

>I wonder if anyone could advise me as to where we could go to learn about >how the old sailors used sextons and compass and charts to navigate. It >would be a wonderful lecture to have on cruise ships and we have often >mentioned it on the comment cards that are passed out at the end of a >cruise. >Is there a cruise ship that makes such information available to the >passengers? Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Sandy

I doubt very much that cruise ships use sextants anymore. They use a GPS, sometimes when they should not. This is from rec.boats.cruising – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Yeah, the QEII (I think) ran aground about 20 years ago just off the >>Elizabeth Islands on Cape Cod and in one of the most heavily traveled >>areas of New England. The chart turned out to be wrong. > Is that the case? I heard about something similar but not a case of a > chart being wrong. A cruise liner enroute to Boston was under autopilot > but the gps lost lock for an extended period of time. During that period > the course was continued with the unit doing its own dead reckoning. By > the time it regained lock it was well off course and the new course to > the next waypoint took it over some rocks. None of the crew had noticed > the system had lost lock and all were trusting that the "gps referenced > autopilot" was safely steering the ship waypoint to waypoint. They also > did not bother to look and see that their course was now taking them > over the rocks. >I believe in the case of the QE2, the rock was charted but the depth was >wrong, plus they didn’t allow for squat.

I understand this is the best book on the subject. 1. Mary Blewitt, Celestial Navigation for Yachtsmen, Revised edition (1995). ISBN 0-07-005928-4, Mc-Graw – Hill – Excellent text grandma Rosalie

Response:

> I wonder if anyone could advise me as to where we could go to learn about > how the old sailors used sextons and compass and charts to navigate. It > would be a wonderful lecture to have on cruise ships and we have often > mentioned it on the comment cards that are passed out at the end of a > cruise. > Is there a cruise ship that makes such information available to the > passengers? Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Sandy

Call your local coastguard, the courses are still taught. JJ

Response:

http://www.celestaire.com/ — Keith __ Experience is something you don’t get until just after you need it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I wonder if anyone could advise me as to where we could go to learn about >how the old sailors used sextons and compass and charts to navigate. It >would be a wonderful lecture to have on cruise ships and we have often >mentioned it on the comment cards that are passed out at the end of a >cruise. > Is there a cruise ship that makes such information available to the > passengers? Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Sandy

Response:

>I wonder if anyone could advise me as to where we could go to learn about >how the old sailors used sextons and compass and charts to navigate. …

Most large ships – and even small boats! – navigate today using GPS. However most large ships still carry sextants, compasses and charts, and the Captain and officers have at least the minimal skill to use them — in case the GPS electronics fail. Some years ago I was on a Windjammer Barefoot cruise — not what most people think about as a "curise ship". The first mate gave a lecture and demonstration of using a sextant. Amazing the detail required. Everything from the stage of the tide to the height of the deck above water level went into the calculation. And, oh yes, you need an accurate clock in addition to sextant and compass! — Charlie Hammond — Hewlett-Packard Company — Ft Lauderdale FL USA All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer’s.

Response:

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In: Travel England

The Holy Prepuce

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > alt.atheism: >> said in alt.atheism: >> >I’ve heard that there are various churches all over Europe that have the >> >Foreskin of Jesus Christ after he got circumcised. >> There are even some churches that have the foreskin of Jesus from >> before he got circumcised. >With all of these foreskins, how many…er, appendages did Jeebus have? >Most guys get only one. Maybe if you’re the son of a god you get special >privileges. > Only one, but if you add up what they all weighed when not dried, they > must have weighed more than your average baby.

I read once that someone claimed that if all of the pieces of the ‘true cross’ were assembled in one place that you would have enough wood to build a ship. — John Hachmann aa #1782 Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality television has to do with reality. – Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04

Response:

>> I’ve heard that there are various churches all over Europe that have the > Foreskin of Jesus Christ after he got circumcised. > As a devout Catholic woman I would like to partake of pilgrimage to these > Holy Sites during my upcoming trip to Europe. > Could you please give me some information on these places? Will I be able > to touch the Holy Foreskin? Are photographs permitted? > Thank you and God Bless. >Check out the church of St. Priapus in Weinerhaus, Germany! ;>)

I went there once. Had to stand six feet away from the toilet to take a whiz for a month afterward. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->James

Response:

alt.atheism: > said in alt.atheism: > >I’ve heard that there are various churches all over Europe that have the > >Foreskin of Jesus Christ after he got circumcised. > There are even some churches that have the foreskin of Jesus from > before he got circumcised. >With all of these foreskins, how many…er, appendages did Jeebus have? >Most guys get only one. Maybe if you’re the son of a god you get special >privileges.

Only one, but if you add up what they all weighed when not dried, they must have weighed more than your average baby. — "A stupid man’s report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." — Bertrand Russell. (random sig, produced by SigChanger) rukbat at verizon dot net

Response:

> I’ve heard that there are various churches all over Europe that have the > Foreskin of Jesus Christ after he got circumcised. > As a devout Catholic woman I would like to partake of pilgrimage to these > Holy Sites during my upcoming trip to Europe. > Could you please give me some information on these places? Will I be able > to touch the Holy Foreskin? Are photographs permitted? > Thank you and God Bless.

Check out the church of St. Priapus in Weinerhaus, Germany! ;>) James

Response:

>> And you posted this to an atheist newsgroup because…? >Umm… "because like the existence of God, the reasons for male infant

Yup, that about covers it. ;-> Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34 EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding

Response:

> said in alt.atheism: >I’ve heard that there are various churches all over Europe that have the >Foreskin of Jesus Christ after he got circumcised. > There are even some churches that have the foreskin of Jesus from > before he got circumcised.

With all of these foreskins, how many…er, appendages did Jeebus have? Most guys get only one. Maybe if you’re the son of a god you get special privileges. — John Hachmann aa #1782 Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality television has to do with reality. – Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04

Response:

> I’ve heard that there are various churches all over Europe that have the > Foreskin of Jesus Christ

Please see "Bones of the Saints" <http://geocities.com/iconoc/Articles/Bones.html> at the site at Right in the sig. A San Franciscan whose reverence for each god is equal. http://geocities.com/dancefest/ http://geocities.com/iconoc/ ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 IClast at SFbay Net

Response:

A quick Google should give you the answers you seek. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Prepuce http://sxws.com/charis/relics3.htm http://sxws.com/charis/relics4.htm http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutjesus/a/holyforeskin.htm — Gregory Gadow http://www.serv.net/~techbear "[T]hose who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves; and, under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it." — Pres. George W. Bush, Hypocrite, his inauguration speech, 2005

Response:

alt.atheism: >Jesus was not circumcised! That’s a MYTH!!! >Jesus was a reformer. He started a reform movement among the Jews to get them >to stop performing barbaric acts like circumcision. >He told them "Circumcise your hearts" (not your dick). It’s in the Bible!

And he told them this when he was 8 days old. — "To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today." – Isaac Asimov (random sig, produced by SigChanger) rukbat at verizon dot net

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> I’ve heard that there are various churches all over Europe that have >the > >> Foreskin of Jesus Christ after he got circumcised. > >> As a devout Catholic woman I would like to partake of pilgrimage to >these > >> Holy Sites during my upcoming trip to Europe. > >> Could you please give me some information on these places? Will I be >able > >> to touch the Holy Foreskin? Are photographs permitted? > >The thing you have to remember about those ancient Jesus >foreskins….they > >are like potato chips…you can’t stop at just one!! > Jesus was not circumcised! That’s a MYTH!!!

Why do you have name that stems from the 6 million dollar man TV seies from 30 years ago….are you not from the states? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jesus was a reformer. He started a reform movement among the Jews to get >them > to stop performing barbaric acts like circumcision. >He started this reform before he was 8 days old? > He told them "Circumcise your hearts" (not your dick). It’s in the Bible! >Didn’t Joe Cocker sing that? Wait, no…that was "Unchain My Heart"!

Response:

> And you posted this to an atheist newsgroup because…? > Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34 > EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding

Umm… "because like the existence of God, the reasons for male infant — http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/DominicScottKay/

Response:

>I’ve heard that there are various churches all over Europe that have the >Foreskin of Jesus Christ after he got circumcised. >As a devout Catholic woman I would like to partake of pilgrimage to these >Holy Sites during my upcoming trip to Europe. >Could you please give me some information on these places? Will I be able >to touch the Holy Foreskin? Are photographs permitted? >Thank you and God Bless.

It just so happens I have the Lords foreskin in a jar. It’s very shiny and I use it for a night light. If you give me a gift offering of five hundred dollars (US) to cover shipping, I’ll let you have it for free. Warlord Steve BAAWA www.sonic.net/~wooly

Response:

On 09 Feb 2005, Madeleine dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted: > I’ve heard that there are various churches all over Europe that have > the Foreskin of Jesus Christ after he got circumcised.

I heard the True Foreskin is in Scotland. > As a devout Catholic woman I would like to partake of pilgrimage to > these Holy Sites during my upcoming trip to Europe. > Could you please give me some information on these places? Will I be > able to touch the Holy Foreskin?

As long as you don’t put it in your mouth. — Vic Sagerquist aa#2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you wouldn’t want to fuck in the first place? –George Carlin

Response:

On 09 Feb 2005, The Six Million Dollar Clayton dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> I’ve heard that there are various churches all over Europe that > >> have > the > >> Foreskin of Jesus Christ after he got circumcised. > >> As a devout Catholic woman I would like to partake of pilgrimage > >> to > these > >> Holy Sites during my upcoming trip to Europe. > >> Could you please give me some information on these places? Will I > >> be > able > >> to touch the Holy Foreskin? Are photographs permitted? > >The thing you have to remember about those ancient Jesus > foreskins….they > >are like potato chips…you can’t stop at just one!! > Jesus was not circumcised! That’s a MYTH!!! > Jesus was a reformer. He started a reform movement among the Jews to > get > them > to stop performing barbaric acts like circumcision. > He started this reform before he was 8 days old? > He told them "Circumcise your hearts" (not your dick). It’s in the > Bible! > Didn’t Joe Cocker sing that? Wait, no…that was "Unchain My Heart"!

Unchain my heart, not my dick? — Vic Sagerquist aa#2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you wouldn’t want to fuck in the first place? –George Carlin

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I’ve heard that there are various churches all over Europe that have the >> Foreskin of Jesus Christ after he got circumcised. >> As a devout Catholic woman I would like to partake of pilgrimage to these >> Holy Sites during my upcoming trip to Europe. >> Could you please give me some information on these places? Will I be able >> to touch the Holy Foreskin? Are photographs permitted? >The thing you have to remember about those ancient Jesus foreskins….they >are like potato chips…you can’t stop at just one!! > Jesus was not circumcised! That’s a MYTH!!! > Jesus was a reformer. He started a reform movement among the Jews to get them > to stop performing barbaric acts like circumcision.

He started this reform before he was 8 days old? > He told them "Circumcise your hearts" (not your dick). It’s in the Bible!

Didn’t Joe Cocker sing that? Wait, no…that was "Unchain My Heart"!

Response:

said in alt.atheism: >I’ve heard that there are various churches all over Europe that have the >Foreskin of Jesus Christ after he got circumcised.

There are even some churches that have the foreskin of Jesus from before he got circumcised. >Could you please give me some information on these places? Will I be able >to touch the Holy Foreskin?

Are you depraved? > Are photographs permitted?

That would be making a graven image of the Lord, or at least a part of him, wouldn’t it? >Thank you and God Bless.

You’re welcome. — "A stupid man’s report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." — Bertrand Russell. (random sig, produced by SigChanger) rukbat at verizon dot net

Response:

> "Madeleine" > Cute request!! > Some data for you dear. > The abbey of Charroux claimed to possess the Holy Foreskin during the > Middle Ages. It was said to have been presented to the monks by > Charlemagne, who in turn is said to have claimed that it had been > brought to him by an angel

<snip> Did I just say "snip"? So, an *angel* came from heaven carrying a foreskin? Does anybody that is a "believer" see how utterly stupid and "made-up" this is? Is *that why xians are so vehement in their belief? Because it is just so, so, so feakin’ silly that if you don’t take it to absolute seriousness you would go insane believing it and living in the world today at the same time? —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

>revolutions, insurgencies, mobs, Calvinists, Puritans and a variety of >disestablishmentarians thinned out the on-hand supply severely in recent >centuries.

The "on-hand" supply? Are you suggesting that Our Lord played with his….oh, what a shocking proposition. It sounds, my son, as though you should make the pilgrimage to the Pulova Mountains and visit our shrine and be cleansed of these thoughts.. A professionally guided tour by Sister Virgo Hymena Intacta will soon cure you of your tendency to blasphemy.

Response:

"Madeleine" Cute request!! Some data for you dear. The abbey of Charroux claimed to possess the Holy Foreskin during the Middle Ages. It was said to have been presented to the monks by Charlemagne, who in turn is said to have claimed that it had been brought to him by an angel (although another version of the story says it was a wedding gift from the Byzantine Empress Irene). In the early 12th century, it was taken in procession to Rome where it was presented before Pope Innocent III, who was asked to rule on its authenticity. The Pope declined the opportunity. At some point, however, the relic went missing, and remained lost until 1856 when a workman repairing the abbey claimed to have found a reliquary hidden inside a wall, containing the missing foreskin. The abbey church of Coulombs in the diocese of Chartres, France was another medieval claimant. One story says that when Catherine of Valois was pregnant in 1421, her husband, King Henry V of England, sent for the Holy Prepuce. It was believed that the sweet scent that the relic was supposed to give off would ensure an easy and safe childbirth. According to this legend, it did its job so well that Henry was reluctant to return it after the birth of the child (the future King Henry VI of England). As well as the Holy Foreskin claimed by the St. John Lateran church in Rome, other claimants in history have included the Cathedral of Le Puy-en-Velay, Santiago de Compostela, the city of Antwerp, and churches in Besan

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In: Travel England

Good month coming up in March!

Question:

>Dave and Pinky…

Leather, not Pinky. I can see you’re not up on your Happy Days trivia. Maybe you should try to download the 30th anniversary special that was on Thursday night. >Enjoy

Other than the long plane ride, I’m sure I will enjoy it! >Me? I get to drive to Memphis Monday for a 13 hour business meeting. >Followed by 5 hours on Weds. Hoping to squeeze in an URB lesson with Ted >though.

13 hours?!? Geez, that’s just mind-numbing! You should take the lesson with Ted for 13 hours, and try to squeeze in the business meeting.

Response:

You are one blessed !%.

Response:

>You are one blessed !%.

If I told you what I was making for those shows in Germany, you’d disagree

Response:

>Excellent news, enjoy the gig with Dave, he’s a superb musician and a really >nice fella too. >I’m so jealous…..

I take it you’re no relation…? Yeah, of all the people I’ve worked with, he will be my favorite.

Response:

>>Nice. I’ve always wanted to do the Chuck Berry gig. Seems like that would be >the pinnacle of the sideman’s art. >Buddy of mine thought that until he did the gig and Chuck was a prick >on the bandstand and tried to short their already meager pay at the >end of the night. Seems he likes to hire greeners who are happy enough >to be playing with a "legend" that they’ll eat the shit he dishes out.

Fortunately Chuck is not my concern. It’s Bowzer’s gig so he’s hiring us and he’s paying us double our regular rate for once! Now if he’ll just send me my 1099 I’d be in business!

Response:

Dave and Pinky… Enjoy Me? I get to drive to Memphis Monday for a 13 hour business meeting. Followed by 5 hours on Weds. Hoping to squeeze in an URB lesson with Ted though. — -rob Slidell, LA O> /() ^^

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am really excited about a couple gigs I have coming up in March that > I found about just a little while ago. One is a Bowzer show that I’ll > be doing in Palm Springs that will have a few acts I’ve worked with > before and one I’ve worked with but didn’t get to play with, but this > time I’ll be playing with him…Chuck Berry! I hope he pulls out > every trick in the book to try and lose us! > From Palm Springs, I will be flying to Stuttgart, Germany to back up > Freddy Cannon and some group of singers from obscure doo-wop groups > called The Legends of Doo-Wop for two shows. Now I like Freddy a lot, > but I wasn’t looking forward to flying 5 hours to Atlanta, then 10 > hours to Germany at all. Then I found out who else will be on the > bill… > Suzi Quatro…yes, that’s right…Leather Tuscadero herself! Never > was a huge fan of her music back in the day, but listening to it now > it doesn’t sound half bad compared to the shit out nowadays. But even > better than Suzi is the other act who’s going to be on the bill…one > of my all-time heroes and the guy who got me interested in the music > of the 50’s when I was a teenager… > Dave Edmunds! To work on a show with Dave Edmunds, I would fly 48 > hours in the luggage compartment of a Cessna! Not only did he get me > interested in the great music of the 50’s like Carl Perkins and Roy > Orbison, but he and Nick Lowe fronted Rockpile, one of the greatest > bands to come out of England ever. Hope he needs a bass player! > Welp, forgive me for bragging, but I am really excited about this turn > of events. It’s helped turn a week I was dreading into a week that I > can’t wait to arrive!

Response:

>A little harsh, but not really inconsistent with what I’ve heard about >playing with Berry. One story I heard was that there’s no rehearsal, >he doesn’t even tell you what song or key he’s playing in, just "When >I do this (slashes head of guitar down) start, and when I do this >(slashes head down again) stop."

Eh, Chuck’s songs are cake. He’s only doing 20 minutes too, so I don’t expect it to be too difficult. I’m sure he’ll throw us some curveballs with keys, but I’ve got perfect pitch so no biggie. >But y’know something – I’d still like to do it at least once just so I >could say I played with him. Prick or not, he’s the father of >rock ‘n roll.

I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if he’s a prick or not. I’m getting double!

Response:

>[snippage] > Welp, forgive me for bragging, but I am really excited about this turn > of events. It’s helped turn a week I was dreading into a week that I > can’t wait to arrive! >Congrats on the gig Boom, spooky too after you (IIRC) were the one hustling >a Dave Edmunds tune into the set in a recent thread.

Exactly! Can’t wait to tell him about that so he hates the rest of my band but loves me! >I actually saw Suzi Q a >few years ago at a small, local music festival along with Mungo Jerry >(lol)….very strange.

Yeah, I’m looking forward to her as well, even though I’m not a big fan of her tunes. I do like that song "48 Crash," though, whatever the hell it means. >Enjoy the travel, the closest I’ve got to a plane ride recently was to turn >down a dep gig just before xmas for three nights in Marbella, Spain…all >for one lousy date I’d booked that fell in between the gig dates.

Flying sucks. I hate it.

Response:

> Suzi Quatro…yes, that’s right…Leather Tuscadero herself!

dig it. she shoots from the hip.

Response:

> Dave Edmunds! To work on a show with Dave Edmunds, I would fly 48 > hours in the luggage compartment of a Cessna! Not only did he get me > interested in the great music of the 50’s like Carl Perkins and Roy > Orbison, but he and Nick Lowe fronted Rockpile, one of the greatest > bands to come out of England ever. Hope he needs a bass player! > Welp, forgive me for bragging, but I am really excited about this turn > of events. It’s helped turn a week I was dreading into a week that I > can’t wait to arrive!

Excellent news, enjoy the gig with Dave, he’s a superb musician and a really nice fella too. I’m so jealous….. Mike E

Response:

>hi if u wanna have a talk when u come here in stuttgart, no problem! >We can have a beer togheter!

Might take you up on that! Thanks!

Response:

Cool stuff Boom. Dave Edumnunds rocks. Cool stuff…. — /" ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H / | http://www.toddh.net/ X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/ / http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | "4 lines suffice."

Response:

Congrats! I’ll buy you a beer if you decide to visit Copenhagen, Denmark – just a few hundred miles north of Stuttgart. Martin

Response:

hi if u wanna have a talk when u come here in stuttgart, no problem! We can have a beer togheter! — www.webforcestudio.tk

Response:

Nice. I’ve always wanted to do the Chuck Berry gig. Seems like that would be the pinnacle of the sideman’s art. As for the travel – you butch about it now, but you’ll miss it when you’re doing local gigs again. At least I do. — Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." – Mark Twain

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am really excited about a couple gigs I have coming up in March that > I found about just a little while ago. One is a Bowzer show that I’ll > be doing in Palm Springs that will have a few acts I’ve worked with > before and one I’ve worked with but didn’t get to play with, but this > time I’ll be playing with him…Chuck Berry! I hope he pulls out > every trick in the book to try and lose us! > From Palm Springs, I will be flying to Stuttgart, Germany to back up > Freddy Cannon and some group of singers from obscure doo-wop groups > called The Legends of Doo-Wop for two shows. Now I like Freddy a lot, > but I wasn’t looking forward to flying 5 hours to Atlanta, then 10 > hours to Germany at all. Then I found out who else will be on the > bill… > Suzi Quatro…yes, that’s right…Leather Tuscadero herself! Never > was a huge fan of her music back in the day, but listening to it now > it doesn’t sound half bad compared to the shit out nowadays. But even > better than Suzi is the other act who’s going to be on the bill…one > of my all-time heroes and the guy who got me interested in the music > of the 50’s when I was a teenager… > Dave Edmunds! To work on a show with Dave Edmunds, I would fly 48 > hours in the luggage compartment of a Cessna! Not only did he get me > interested in the great music of the 50’s like Carl Perkins and Roy > Orbison, but he and Nick Lowe fronted Rockpile, one of the greatest > bands to come out of England ever. Hope he needs a bass player! > Welp, forgive me for bragging, but I am really excited about this turn > of events. It’s helped turn a week I was dreading into a week that I > can’t wait to arrive!

Response:

> Welp, forgive me for bragging, but I am really excited about this turn > of events. It’s helped turn a week I was dreading into a week that I > can’t wait to arrive!

Cool, but who you callin’ welp? Been a while since I’ve been that young Have a great time. Glenn D.

Response:

>Nice. I’ve always wanted to do the Chuck Berry gig. Seems like that would be >the pinnacle of the sideman’s art.

Buddy of mine thought that until he did the gig and Chuck was a prick on the bandstand and tried to short their already meager pay at the end of the night. Seems he likes to hire greeners who are happy enough to be playing with a "legend" that they’ll eat the shit he dishes out. jeffb "Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves" -Dorothy Parker

Response:

>Nice. I’ve always wanted to do the Chuck Berry gig. Seems like that would be >the pinnacle of the sideman’s art. > Buddy of mine thought that until he did the gig and Chuck was a prick > on the bandstand and tried to short their already meager pay at the > end of the night. Seems he likes to hire greeners who are happy enough > to be playing with a "legend" that they’ll eat the shit he dishes out.

A little harsh, but not really inconsistent with what I’ve heard about playing with Berry. One story I heard was that there’s no rehearsal, he doesn’t even tell you what song or key he’s playing in, just "When I do this (slashes head of guitar down) start, and when I do this (slashes head down again) stop." But y’know something – I’d still like to do it at least once just so I could say I played with him. Prick or not, he’s the father of rock ‘n roll. – Gary Rosen

Response:

Seems he likes to hire greeners who are happy enough > to be playing with a "legend" that they’ll eat the shit he dishes out.

"Literally" oh..you said greeners..I thought you said groupies… Jay S

Response:

I know. Seems like a real test of all your skills, playing and otherwise — Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." – Mark Twain

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Nice. I’ve always wanted to do the Chuck Berry gig. Seems like that would > be > >the pinnacle of the sideman’s art. > Buddy of mine thought that until he did the gig and Chuck was a prick > on the bandstand and tried to short their already meager pay at the > end of the night. Seems he likes to hire greeners who are happy enough > to be playing with a "legend" that they’ll eat the shit he dishes out. > A little harsh, but not really inconsistent with what I’ve heard about > playing with Berry. One story I heard was that there’s no rehearsal, > he doesn’t even tell you what song or key he’s playing in, just "When > I do this (slashes head of guitar down) start, and when I do this > (slashes head down again) stop." > But y’know something – I’d still like to do it at least once just so I > could say I played with him. Prick or not, he’s the father of > rock ‘n roll. > – Gary Rosen

Response:

> Seems he likes to hire greeners who are happy enough > to be playing with a "legend" that they’ll eat the shit he dishes out. > "Literally" > oh..you said greeners..I thought you said groupies…

Yeah, Chuck is a freak when it comes to poop. Glenn D.

Response:

> Buddy of mine thought that until he did the gig and Chuck was a prick > on the bandstand and tried to short their already meager pay at the > end of the night. Seems he likes to hire greeners who are happy enough > to be playing with a "legend" that they’ll eat the shit he dishes out.

That’s true, and CB is notorious for doing this… for a long long time. Not only that, but he’ll start songs and change them around midstream, and expect everyone to perfectly follow. Audiences eat up this kind of BS , because after all he’s a legend, right? Ha.

Response:

[snippage] > Welp, forgive me for bragging, but I am really excited about this turn > of events. It’s helped turn a week I was dreading into a week that I > can’t wait to arrive!

Congrats on the gig Boom, spooky too after you (IIRC) were the one hustling a Dave Edmunds tune into the set in a recent thread. I actually saw Suzi Q a few years ago at a small, local music festival along with Mungo Jerry (lol)….very strange. Enjoy the travel, the closest I’ve got to a plane ride recently was to turn down a dep gig just before xmas for three nights in Marbella, Spain…all for one lousy date I’d booked that fell in between the gig dates. SR

Response:

I am really excited about a couple gigs I have coming up in March that I found about just a little while ago. One is a Bowzer show that I’ll be doing in Palm Springs that will have a few acts I’ve worked with before and one I’ve worked with but didn’t get to play with, but this time I’ll be playing with him…Chuck Berry! I hope he pulls out every trick in the book to try and lose us! From Palm Springs, I will be flying to Stuttgart, Germany to back up Freddy Cannon and some group of singers from obscure doo-wop groups called The Legends of Doo-Wop for two shows. Now I like Freddy a lot, but I wasn’t looking forward to flying 5 hours to Atlanta, then 10 hours to Germany at all. Then I found out who else will be on the bill… Suzi Quatro…yes, that’s right…Leather Tuscadero herself! Never was a huge fan of her music back in the day, but listening to it now it doesn’t sound half bad compared to the shit out nowadays. But even better than Suzi is the other act who’s going to be on the bill…one of my all-time heroes and the guy who got me interested in the music of the 50’s when I was a teenager… Dave Edmunds! To work on a show with Dave Edmunds, I would fly 48 hours in the luggage compartment of a Cessna! Not only did he get me interested in the great music of the 50’s like Carl Perkins and Roy Orbison, but he and Nick Lowe fronted Rockpile, one of the greatest bands to come out of England ever. Hope he needs a bass player! Welp, forgive me for bragging, but I am really excited about this turn of events. It’s helped turn a week I was dreading into a week that I can’t wait to arrive!

Response:

very cool, have a blast! m – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am really excited about a couple gigs I have coming up in March that > I found about just a little while ago. One is a Bowzer show that I’ll > be doing in Palm Springs that will have a few acts I’ve worked with > before and one I’ve worked with but didn’t get to play with, but this > time I’ll be playing with him…Chuck Berry! I hope he pulls out > every trick in the book to try and lose us! > From Palm Springs, I will be flying to Stuttgart, Germany to back up > Freddy Cannon and some group of singers from obscure doo-wop groups > called The Legends of Doo-Wop for two shows. Now I like Freddy a lot, > but I wasn’t looking forward to flying 5 hours to Atlanta, then 10 > hours to Germany at all. Then I found out who else will be on the > bill… > Suzi Quatro…yes, that’s right…Leather Tuscadero herself! Never > was a huge fan of her music back in the day, but listening to it now > it doesn’t sound half bad compared to the shit out nowadays. But even > better than Suzi is the other act who’s going to be on the bill…one > of my all-time heroes and the guy who got me interested in the music > of the 50’s when I was a teenager… > Dave Edmunds! To work on a show with Dave Edmunds, I would fly 48 > hours in the luggage compartment of a Cessna! Not only did he get me > interested in the great music of the 50’s like Carl Perkins and Roy > Orbison, but he and Nick Lowe fronted Rockpile, one of the greatest > bands to come out of England ever. Hope he needs a bass player! > Welp, forgive me for bragging, but I am really excited about this turn > of events. It’s helped turn a week I was dreading into a week that I > can’t wait to arrive!

Response:

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In: Travel England

Where to Go?

Question:

Hi, me and my brother are going travelling somewhere…….dont know where yet. thats where hopefully you guys can help.(from england) at the moment we have about

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In: Travel England

Carnival On-Line Excursion Booking!

Question:

Hi Everyone, I received this press release from Carnival Cruise Lines and thought it would be of interest. If you have missed any of my news’ postings, they are available on my web site. Best regards, Ray LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905 http://www.lighthousetravel.com Carnival Rolls Out New On-Line Shore Excursion Booking System More Than 1,000 Different Choices Available On Comprehensive carnival.com Web Site MIAMI, Jan. 3 Carnival Cruise Lines, the world’s largest cruise operator, has introduced a new on-line shore excursion booking system that provides guests the opportunity to purchase shore excursions prior to their cruise utilizing the line’s user-friendly Web site, carnival.com. With the new system, guests are able to book shore excursions in conjunction with all Carnival "Fun Ships" sailing to 65 different ports throughout the Caribbean, Bahamas, Mexican Riviera, Alaska, Hawaii, the Panama Canal, Canada, New England and Europe. More than 1,000 different shore excursion choices are available. Snorkeling and scuba expeditions, horseback riding, helicopter flightseeing, shopping and city tours are among the excursions that can be booked via this new dynamic shore excursion booking engine. In-depth information such as excursion description, activity level, duration, and pricing are included in each listing. "More consumers than ever are using the Internet for travel research and purchases and our new on-line shore excursion booking system provides Carnival guests with an easy and convenient means for purchasing the wide variety of fun and interesting shore excursions available aboard the ‘Fun Ships,’" said Bob Dickinson, Carnival president and CEO. To access the new on-line shore excursion booking engine, guests must be registered on carnival.com and have a fully deposited cruise booking. After accessing their cruise booking through the "View Cruise Details" link, guests are prompted with the "Add Shore Excursions" option, which lists all shore excursion choices associated with the ports of call featured on their particular cruise. To purchase a shore excursion, guests simply click on the shore excursion of their choice and enter credit card payment information via a secure encrypted reservations portal. Guests are provided with a printable shore excursion confirmation and shore excursion tickets are delivered to guests’ staterooms on embarkation day. On-line shore excursion orders can be made from 180 days up to five days prior to departure date. Guests are also welcome to visit the shore excursion desk once on board to book shore excursions and obtain additional information. The new on-line shore excursion system is just the latest enhancement to Carnival’s popular carnival.com Internet site, which encompasses more than 2,000 Web pages and offers a host of new and expanded features, including enhanced site navigation, streaming video, personalized content tailored to each visitor, and more 360-degree "virtual tours" of the "Fun Ship" fleet. Carnival, a unit of Carnival Corporation & plc (NYSE: CCL; LSE) (NYSE: CUK), is the largest and most popular cruise line in the world, with 20 "Fun Ships" operating voyages ranging from three to 16 days in length to the Bahamas, Caribbean, Mexican Riviera, Alaska, Hawaii, the Panama Canal, Canada, New England and Europe. The line currently has two 110,000-ton "Fun Ships" – Carnival Liberty and Carnival Freedom – scheduled for delivery between now and spring 2007. For additional information and reservations on Carnival’s "Fun Ship" cruises, contact any travel agent. Carnival Cruise Lines is a proud member of the exclusive World’s Leading Cruise Lines. Our exclusive alliance also includes Holland America Line, Princess Cruises, Cunard Line, Costa Cruises, Windstar Cruises and The Yachts of Seabourn. Sharing a passion to please each guest, and a commitment to quality and value, our member lines appeal to a wide range of lifestyles and budgets. Together, we offer exciting and enriching cruise vacations to the world’s most desirable destinations.

Response:

I invite you to look at the "official" and UNEDITED press release that Carnival sent out to everyone, including travel agents. The same exact message was sent to everyone that receives them and it is posted on the Carnival website at Carnival.com Look at the changes that Mr Goldenberg made and ask yourself why. He is trying to get you to call him about booking cruises. While that is his occupation and I have no problem with travel agents and posting press releases is GOOD for this forum, HE is violating the rules of this newsgroup and that is not ethical. If he was ethical he would post the entire release. Your choice if you wish to deal with someone like this. Jim Press release EXACTLY as sent out to everyone follows; CARNIVAL ROLLS OUT NEW ON-LINE SHORE EXCURSION BOOKING SYSTEM More Than 1,000 Different Choices Available On Comprehensive carnival.com Web Site MIAMI (January 3, 2005) – Carnival Cruise Lines, the world’s largest cruise operator, has introduced a new on-line shore excursion booking system that provides guests the opportunity to purchase shore excursions prior to their cruise utilizing the line’s user-friendly Web site, carnival.com. With the new system, guests are able to book shore excursions in conjunction with all Carnival "Fun Ships" sailing to 65 different ports throughout the Caribbean, Bahamas, Mexican Riviera, Alaska, Hawaii, the Panama Canal, Canada, New England and Europe. More than 1,000 different shore excursion choices are available. Snorkeling and scuba expeditions, horseback riding, helicopter flightseeing, shopping and city tours are among the excursions that can be booked via this new dynamic shore excursion booking engine. In-depth information such as excursion description, activity level, duration, and pricing are included in each listing. "More consumers than ever are using the Internet for travel research and purchases and our new on-line shore excursion booking system provides Carnival guests with an easy and convenient means for purchasing the wide variety of fun and interesting shore excursions available aboard the ‘Fun Ships,’" said Bob Dickinson, Carnival president and CEO. To access the new on-line shore excursion booking engine, guests must be registered on carnival.com and have a fully deposited cruise booking. After accessing their cruise booking through the "View Cruise Details" link, guests are prompted with the "Add Shore Excursions" option which lists all shore excursion choices associated with the ports of call featured on their particular cruise. To purchase a shore excursion, guests simply click on the shore excursion of their choice and enter credit card payment information via a secure encrypted reservations portal. Guests are provided with a printable shore excursion confirmation and shore excursion tickets are delivered to guests’ staterooms on embarkation day. On-line shore excursion orders can be made from 180 days up to five days prior to departure date. Guests are also welcome to visit the shore excursion desk once on board to book shore excursions and obtain additional information. The new on-line shore excursion system is just the latest enhancement to Carnival’s popular carnival.com Internet site, which encompasses more than 2,000 Web pages and offers a host of new and expanded features, including enhanced site navigation, streaming video, personalized content tailored to each visitor, and more 360-degree "virtual tours" of the "Fun Ship" fleet. Carnival, a unit of Carnival Corporation & plc (NYSE/LSE: CCL; NYSE: CUK), is the largest and most popular cruise line in the world, with 20 "Fun Ships" operating voyages ranging from three to 16 days in length to the Bahamas, Caribbean, Mexican Riviera, Alaska, Hawaii, the Panama Canal, Canada, New England and Europe. The line currently has two 110,000-ton "Fun Ships" – Carnival Liberty and Carnival Freedom – scheduled for delivery between now and spring 2007. For additional information and reservations on Carnival’s "Fun Ship" cruises, contact any travel agent, call 1-800-CARNIVAL or visit carnival.com. ### Carnival Cruise Lines is a proud member of the exclusive World’s Leading Cruise Lines. Our exclusive alliance also includes Holland America Line, Princess Cruises, Cunard Line, Costa Cruises, Windstar Cruises and The Yachts of Seabourn. Sharing a passion to please each guest, and a commitment to quality and value, our member lines appeal to a wide range of lifestyles and budgets. Together, we offer exciting and enriching cruise vacations to the world’s most desirable destinations.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Everyone, > I received this press release from Carnival Cruise Lines and thought > it would be of interest. If you have missed any of my news’ postings, > they are available on my web site. > Best regards, > Ray > LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL > 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905 > http://www.lighthousetravel.com > Carnival Rolls Out New On-Line Shore Excursion Booking System > More Than 1,000 Different Choices Available On Comprehensive > carnival.com Web Site > MIAMI, Jan. 3 > Carnival Cruise Lines, the world’s largest cruise operator, has > introduced a new on-line shore excursion booking system that provides > guests the opportunity to purchase shore excursions prior to their > cruise utilizing the line’s user-friendly Web site, carnival.com. > With the new system, guests are able to book shore excursions in > conjunction with all Carnival "Fun Ships" sailing to 65 different > ports throughout the Caribbean, Bahamas, Mexican Riviera, Alaska, > Hawaii, the Panama Canal, Canada, New England and Europe. > More than 1,000 different shore excursion choices are available. > Snorkeling and scuba expeditions, horseback riding, helicopter > flightseeing, shopping and city tours are among the excursions that > can be booked via this new dynamic shore excursion booking engine. > In-depth information such as excursion description, activity level, > duration, and pricing are included in each listing. > "More consumers than ever are using the Internet for travel research > and purchases and our new on-line shore excursion booking system > provides Carnival guests with an easy and convenient means for > purchasing the wide variety of fun and interesting shore excursions > available aboard the ‘Fun Ships,’" said Bob Dickinson, Carnival > president and CEO. > To access the new on-line shore excursion booking engine, guests must > be registered on carnival.com and have a fully deposited cruise > booking. After accessing their cruise booking through the "View Cruise > Details" link, guests are prompted with the "Add Shore Excursions" > option, which lists all shore excursion choices associated with the > ports of call featured on their particular cruise. > To purchase a shore excursion, guests simply click on the shore > excursion of their choice and enter credit card payment information > via a secure encrypted reservations portal. Guests are provided with a > printable shore excursion confirmation and shore excursion tickets are > delivered to guests’ staterooms on embarkation day. > On-line shore excursion orders can be made from 180 days up to five > days prior to departure date. Guests are also welcome to visit the > shore excursion desk once on board to book shore excursions and obtain > additional information. > The new on-line shore excursion system is just the latest enhancement > to Carnival’s popular carnival.com Internet site, which encompasses > more than 2,000 Web pages and offers a host of new and expanded > features, including enhanced site navigation, streaming video, > personalized content tailored to each visitor, and more 360-degree > "virtual tours" of the "Fun Ship" fleet. > Carnival, a unit of Carnival Corporation & plc (NYSE: CCL; LSE) (NYSE: > CUK), is the largest and most popular cruise line in the world, with > 20 "Fun Ships" operating voyages ranging from three to 16 days in > length to the Bahamas, Caribbean, Mexican Riviera, Alaska, Hawaii, the > Panama Canal, Canada, New England and Europe. The line currently has > two 110,000-ton "Fun Ships" – Carnival Liberty and Carnival Freedom – > scheduled for delivery between now and spring 2007.

THIS PART HAS BEEN EDITED TO AVOID MENTIONING THAT CARNIVAL BOOKS CRUISES > For additional information and reservations on Carnival’s "Fun Ship" > cruises, contact any travel agent.

END EDIT (notice something missing?) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Carnival Cruise Lines is a proud member of the exclusive World’s > Leading Cruise Lines. Our exclusive alliance also includes Holland > America Line, Princess Cruises, Cunard Line, Costa Cruises, Windstar > Cruises and The Yachts of Seabourn. Sharing a passion to please each > guest, and a commitment to quality and value, our member lines appeal > to a wide range of lifestyles and budgets. Together, we offer exciting > and enriching cruise vacations to the world’s most desirable > destinations.

Response:

<snip> . >You’re wasting your time. "mrtravel" (Michael Voight of Cisco) is a psychopath.

That’s okay, you’re a troll, too. Plonk — dillon "When the French are against it, you know we can’t be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> So, if lawyers don’t have a problem with posts to this newsgroup, then > no one should complain about anything? I await Ray’s reponse on whether > he removed the Cruise Line’s 800 number from the press release. Nearly > everything Ray posts is a press release, along with his ad. This is no > really what the spirit this newsgroup is about. >As someone who has recently appeared, I don’t think you have a take on >what the spirit of this newsgroup is about. >The press releases are information. There is nothing wrong with posting >this information. However if you don’t like it, just don’t read the >press releases. I happen to like the info and that it is posted, but I >only read a few of them, the ones I find of interest. You are welcome >to kill file Ray if you don’t like his posts. You are not forced to >even see them. >In any case Ray has been posting the press releases for years. Since >before I first read this newsgroup which was about nine years ago. >Whether you like it or not, he will continue so I suggest that instead >of wasting bandwith on the subject, or getting you pants wet over it, >you get used to it and discuss cruises instead of whining about Ray.

You’re wasting your time. "mrtravel" (Michael Voight of Cisco) is a psychopath. He’s been doing this for over a decade in multiple newsgroups. http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=M4382GAL38335.876782… http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?as_q=%22michael%20voight%22&safe=im… A FAQ on him is coming soon. Sick of mrtravel/Merry Christmas (Michael Voight of Cisco) and his hundreds of aliases and thousands of troll posts? Contact him directly, as well as his employer, and let them know how you feel! Michael D. Voight 111 Bean Creek Rd, No. 118 Scotts Valley, CA 95066-4148 (8 3 1) 4 3 8 – 2 4 8 5 His work e-mail address is His boses at work: (remove all spaces) THE MICHAEL VOIGHT FAQ – COMING SOON!!!

Response:

You’re wasting your time. "mrtravel" (Michael Voight of Cisco) is a psychopath. He’s been doing this for over a decade in multiple newsgroups. http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=M4382GAL38335.8767824 074%40anonymous.poster http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?as_q=%22michael%20voight%22&safe=ima ges&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=50&hl=en A FAQ on him is coming soon. Sick of mrtravel/Merry Christmas (Michael Voight of Cisco) and his hundreds of aliases and thousands of troll posts? Contact him directly, as well as his employer, and let them know how you feel! Michael D. Voight 111 Bean Creek Rd, No. 118 Scotts Valley, CA 95066-4148 (8 3 1) 4 3 8 – 2 4 8 5 His work e-mail address is His boses at work: (remove all spaces) THE MICHAEL VOIGHT FAQ – COMING SOON!!!

Response:

Not everything Ray posts are press releases. He does, in fact, answer questions from RTC members, although he doesn’t answer questions posted by crossposting trolls who bitch about his tactics and then have the gall to ask him for information they are to lazy to find on their own. I have been accused by the same crossposting troll of somehow being involved with Ray. I guess the moron’s rationale is that both of our last names begin with the same four letters. Ray Goldenberg is not now nor has he ever been my travel agent, nor do I have any vested interest in Lighthouse Travel. My TA is in Richboro, PA. As Charles said, there is nothing wrong with what Ray does to the press releases. If you don’t like what he does, either don’t read them, or killfile him and you will no longer have the problem. — DG in Cherry Hill, NJ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have no idea in what form Ray recieves the press releases. I do know > that when I used to send out press releases, many times it was > boilerplate which was modified for different recipients or intended to > be modified by the reciepient for local use, with local addresses and > local info for different audiences to be inserted by the recipients. We > were quite happy when the press release was used this way. We just > wanted to get the word out and get the free publicity. I suggest if you > think Ray is doing something not ethical with the press releases that > you complain to Carnival or the other cruise lines that issue the > releases. If they are unhappy with the way they appear I am sure they > have lawyers. > So, if lawyers don’t have a problem with posts to this newsgroup, then > no one should complain about anything? I await Ray’s reponse on whether > he removed the Cruise Line’s 800 number from the press release. Nearly > everything Ray posts is a press release, along with his ad. This is no > really what the spirit this newsgroup is about.

Response:

> So, if lawyers don’t have a problem with posts to this newsgroup, then > no one should complain about anything? I await Ray’s reponse on whether > he removed the Cruise Line’s 800 number from the press release. Nearly > everything Ray posts is a press release, along with his ad. This is no > really what the spirit this newsgroup is about.

As someone who has recently appeared, I don’t think you have a take on what the spirit of this newsgroup is about. The press releases are information. There is nothing wrong with posting this information. However if you don’t like it, just don’t read the press releases. I happen to like the info and that it is posted, but I only read a few of them, the ones I find of interest. You are welcome to kill file Ray if you don’t like his posts. You are not forced to even see them. In any case Ray has been posting the press releases for years. Since before I first read this newsgroup which was about nine years ago. Whether you like it or not, he will continue so I suggest that instead of wasting bandwith on the subject, or getting you pants wet over it, you get used to it and discuss cruises instead of whining about Ray. — Charles

Response:

> Yes, but the OP did seem to purposely edit the Press Release to wipe out > the part that indicated people could book by calling the Carnival 800 > number, but seems to have left in the part about contacting a travel > agent. Do you think this is is an ethical way to forward a press > release, by calling it a press release, then editting it to fit your agenda?

I have no idea in what form Ray recieves the press releases. I do know that when I used to send out press releases, many times it was boilerplate which was modified for different recipients or intended to be modified by the reciepient for local use, with local addresses and local info for different audiences to be inserted by the recipients. We were quite happy when the press release was used this way. We just wanted to get the word out and get the free publicity. I suggest if you think Ray is doing something not ethical with the press releases that you complain to Carnival or the other cruise lines that issue the releases. If they are unhappy with the way they appear I am sure they have lawyers. — Charles

Response:

> I have no idea in what form Ray recieves the press releases. I do know > that when I used to send out press releases, many times it was > boilerplate which was modified for different recipients or intended to > be modified by the reciepient for local use, with local addresses and > local info for different audiences to be inserted by the recipients. We > were quite happy when the press release was used this way. We just > wanted to get the word out and get the free publicity. I suggest if you > think Ray is doing something not ethical with the press releases that > you complain to Carnival or the other cruise lines that issue the > releases. If they are unhappy with the way they appear I am sure they > have lawyers.

So, if lawyers don’t have a problem with posts to this newsgroup, then no one should complain about anything? I await Ray’s reponse on whether he removed the Cruise Line’s 800 number from the press release. Nearly everything Ray posts is a press release, along with his ad. This is no really what the spirit this newsgroup is about.

Response:

You explained it correctly Charles. They want suppliers to use these press releases for their own purposes, regardless of what our latest troll on here may say. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yes, but the OP did seem to purposely edit the Press Release to wipe out >the part that indicated people could book by calling the Carnival 800 >number, but seems to have left in the part about contacting a travel >agent. Do you think this is is an ethical way to forward a press >release, by calling it a press release, then editting it to fit your agenda? > I have no idea in what form Ray recieves the press releases. I do know > that when I used to send out press releases, many times it was > boilerplate which was modified for different recipients or intended to > be modified by the reciepient for local use, with local addresses and > local info for different audiences to be inserted by the recipients. We > were quite happy when the press release was used this way. We just > wanted to get the word out and get the free publicity. I suggest if you > think Ray is doing something not ethical with the press releases that > you complain to Carnival or the other cruise lines that issue the > releases. If they are unhappy with the way they appear I am sure they > have lawyers.

Response:

>>He is trying to get you to call him about booking >cruises. While that is his occupation and I have no problem with travel >agents and posting press releases is GOOD for this forum, HE is violating >the rules of this newsgroup and that is not ethical. > You don’t know diddle what you are talking about. He isn’t violating > any rules. Posting business info in the signature is a Usenet tradition > and allowed. As long as the business info is in the signature at the > bottom, and not in the main message body it is ethical.

Yes, but the OP did seem to purposely edit the Press Release to wipe out the part that indicated people could book by calling the Carnival 800 number, but seems to have left in the part about contacting a travel agent. Do you think this is is an ethical way to forward a press release, by calling it a press release, then editting it to fit your agenda?

Response:

> He is trying to get you to call him about booking > cruises. While that is his occupation and I have no problem with travel > agents and posting press releases is GOOD for this forum, HE is violating > the rules of this newsgroup and that is not ethical.

You don’t know diddle what you are talking about. He isn’t violating any rules. Posting business info in the signature is a Usenet tradition and allowed. As long as the business info is in the signature at the bottom, and not in the main message body it is ethical. Plus talk about hypocritical, you have made plenty of posts to try to get people to make hits on your employers commercial web site of which you were/are? the advertising manager. And what kind of ads do you sell—duh, ads to book cruises. > END EDIT (notice something missing?)

Your brains in wasting bandwith. — Charles

Response:

THIS PART HAS BEEN EDITED TO AVOID MENTIONING THAT CARNIVAL BOOKS CRUISES > For additional information and reservations on Carnival’s "Fun Ship" > cruises, contact any travel agent.

Response:

Your brains in wasting bandwith. — Charles

Response:

You’re wasting your time. "mrtravel" (Michael Voight of Cisco) is a psychopath. He’s been doing this for over a decade in multiple newsgroups. http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=M4382GAL38335.8767824 074%40anonymous.poster http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?as_q=%22michael%20voight%22&safe=ima ges&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=50&hl=en A FAQ on him is coming soon. Sick of mrtravel/Merry Christmas (Michael Voight of Cisco) and his hundreds of aliases and thousands of troll posts? Contact him directly, as well as his employer, and let them know how you feel! Michael D. Voight 111 Bean Creek Rd, No. 118 Scotts Valley, CA 95066-4148 (8 3 1) 4 3 8 – 2 4 8 5 His work e-mail address is His boses at work: (remove all spaces) THE MICHAEL VOIGHT FAQ – COMING SOON!!!

Response:

<snip> . >You’re wasting your time. "mrtravel" (Michael Voight of Cisco) is a psychopath.

That’s okay, you’re a troll, too. Plonk — dillon "When the French are against it, you know we can’t be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman

Response:

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In: Travel Deal England

Does the Diamond Princess have safes in the cabins?

Question:

Does the Diamond Princess have a safes in each cabin? If so, is there a charge to use the safe and what is the charge? My wife and I are trying to decide whether to bring cash or traveler’s checks with us on the Diamond Princess cruise, which departs the LA harbor for the Mexican Riviera on 12/29/04. John

Response:

@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > Does the Diamond Princess have a safes in each cabin? If so, is there a > charge to use the safe and what is the charge? > My wife and I are trying to decide whether to bring cash or > traveler’s checks with us on the Diamond Princess cruise, which > departs the LA harbor for the Mexican Riviera on 12/29/04. > John

Safes? Yes, but why cash or TCs? Why not credit cards supplemented by a reasonable amount of cash (like $100)? You won’t need cash onboard and if buying anything substantial credit cards are safer than carrying cash around.

Response:

Yup, there are safes (operated by a four-digit pin number) in each cabin. I’d go with Traveler’s Checks – they’re safer is lost or stolen. Gayle > Does the Diamond Princess have a safes in each cabin? If so, is there a > charge to use the safe and what is the charge? > My wife and I are trying to decide whether to bring cash or > traveler’s checks with us on the Diamond Princess cruise, which > departs the LA harbor for the Mexican Riviera on 12/29/04. > John

Gayle Kortright Program Assistant – Confidential Office of the Secretary of the University University of Wisconsin – Milwaukee (414)229-5988 phone (414)229-5198 fax

Response:

> Does the Diamond Princess have a safes in each cabin? If so, is there > a charge to use the safe and what is the charge?

There is no charge to use the safes. You can bring Traveler’s Checks with you, but you may only be able to use them at the Purser’s Desk. Most restaurants and vendor’s in the Caribbean will not take Traveler’s Checks, there are too many forgeries. Take plenty of small bills with you. Take more than you think you will need. Some of the vendor’s will give you their local currency in change. Please come back and tell us all about your cruise. Becca <—–have fun! MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/ Miracle in May http://www.cruisemaster.com/miracle.htm Canada – New England http://www.cruisemaster.com/carnivalFall.htm Caribbean Princess http://www.cruisemaster.com/caribprin.htm

Response:

>Does the Diamond Princess have a safes in each cabin? If so, is there a >charge to use the safe and what is the charge? >My wife and I are trying to decide whether to bring cash or >traveler’s checks with us on the Diamond Princess cruise, which >departs the LA harbor for the Mexican Riviera on 12/29/04. >John

The only cash you may need on the cruise is tips for the help and on Princess you can have tips added to your cabin bill. Unless you are a gambler but most casinos on board will let you get cash from your on board credit card(cabin)

Response:

> The only cash you may need on the cruise is tips for the help and on > Princess you can have tips added to your cabin bill. > Unless you are a gambler but most casinos on board will let you get > cash from your on board credit card(cabin)

The casinos on Princess charge a 3% surcharge if you get cash in the casino on your ship board account. So if you use the casino very much, it is best to bring more cash or traveler’s checks that you can cash in at the purser’s desk –Jean.

Response:

Gayle Kortright Program Assistant – Confidential Office of the Secretary of the University University of Wisconsin – Milwaukee (414)229-5988 phone (414)229-5198 fax

Response:

> Does the Diamond Princess have a safes in each cabin? If so, is there > a charge to use the safe and what is the charge?

Response:

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In: Travel England

Travelling to England will never be easier…

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